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Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

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Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#141

Post by zimpenfish »

tnone wrote: post #66
ck425 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He explicitly says near the start of his article that he disagrees with the views on gender differences that the memo espouces, and that he's not getting into then because others are more qualified to do so.

Good thing the original memo author has a PhD in biology then. That post is a cowardly and smarmy non answer, and it contradicts itself in several ways. Aside from the one already mentioned, it claims making people feel bad at their job is inappropriate (even though the memo did no such thing) and then goes on to actually mock the author by claiming he sounds like he's bad at his job. Rules for thee but not for me. U…

His PhD is in "Systems Biology", isn't it? Which is more about computational approaches to understanding biological systems than, at the risk of simplifying horribly, "messy" biology.

> making people feel bad at their job is inappropriate (even though the memo did no such thing)

Say you've got red hair and someone sent a memo around saying that they'd heard that everyone with red hair was more of a fuzzy people person than a real coder. Would you agree that people with red hair may well feel targeted?

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#142

Post by xanon »

puranjay wrote: post #112
MichaelGG wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, we should let companies have explicit policies against certain races cause the market will sort it out... I don't think I've ever heard that "the market" will deal with unfair internal HR policies.

What tech company would be able to attract top workers if it had an explicit policy against a certain race? The job market, too, is a market.

One doesn't get a fat paycheck just because they are intrinsically awesome. One gets a fat paycheck because turnover costs, especially opportunity costs, are higher.

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#143

Post by sebastos »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #85
Pyxl101 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The guy who was fired was way out of line, far beyond any reasonable limits to topics of discussion. What did the author say that was "out of line"? Can you please cite a section of the essay and explain? Note: Please see this response to the memo from four scientists who study the field of psychology: http://archive.is/z6xxP The reason given by Google for the author's termination was "advancing harmful gender ster…

A lot of what he said was on-point and I agree with it. However, it also puts forth a lot of inappropriate generalizations, and in many places presents absurdisms as valid points. I think his "manifesto" would have been a lot more compelling and less divisive if he had presented it much differently.

SUCH AS?

Jesus Christ.

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#144

Post by supremesaboteur »

This is the moment. Google used to be this dream place to work, not anymore. If other companies want to hire good conservative/libertarian engineers, they should motion loud and clear that they will not ostracize employees for having a differing political opinion

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#145

Post by Mangalor »

protomyth wrote: post #109

Frankly, the CEO has more problems than this memo. Breitbart has been a garbage fire for a while, but if the screen shots and messages in the article[1] aren't fake then Google is going to have some problems. This is really not the thing you want going on when you already have a government labor investigation underway. I wish anyone impacted luck. 1) http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/07/revealed-inside-goo...

Breitbart is fascist propaganda, you've made the world worse for sharing anything from them.

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#146

Post by unethical_ban »

JustAnotherPat wrote: post #113
se2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you have misconstrued the message Sundar was giving. The difference between having the freedom to speak one's mind, and breaching a code of conduct that you sign when you agree to work for Google is clear cut in his note.

>"each Googler to do their utmost to create a workplace culture that is free of harassment, intimidation, bias and unlawful discrimination.” Which part did he break exactly? Bias? Seems like something that can be construed to mean basically any ideology or opinion, conservative or liberal.

I think he went too far when he suggested women are inherently less capable in the computer sciences than men.

Saying diversity training sucks, or that Google should re-evaluate how they encourage diversity, or that men are getting a raw deal, would have been tolerable.

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#147

Post by mattnewton »

jamesrcole wrote: post #13

By firing the employee, Google is sending a strong signal that they will not tolerate a diversity of opinions. That does not bode well for them, for a restrictive intellectual environment is anathema to the kind of intelligent people they want to hire to keep the company competitive.

Actually I think you have it backwards. By not firing him, they would have done too little to distance the Google brand from the manifesto (and worse, people's third and fourth hand readings of the manifesto). That would cost them more potential and current engineers short term and certainly devalue the consumer brand more than sending a message that company wide memos like that aren't tolerated. They can't just take this sitting down.

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#148

Post by tchaffee »

koolba wrote: post #5

Quoting Sundar Pichai (Google CEO), emphasis mine: > At the same time, there are co-workers who are questioning whether they can safely express their views in the workplace (especially those with a minority viewpoint) . They too feel under threat, and that is also not OK. People must feel free to express dissent. So to be clear again, many points raised in the memo—such as the portions criticizing Google’s trainings,…

You can express your minority views as long as those views don't violate company policy. That's reasonable. You certainly wouldn't expect to keep your job if you published a memo saying you should be able to call black employees "nigger" because _cite some pseudo science here_. That's a minority view, isn't it? The expectation that every minority view can or should be safely expressed is both naive and unreasonable.

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#149

Post by trosi »

cynicalkane wrote: post #128
koolba wrote: post #5

Quoting Sundar Pichai (Google CEO), emphasis mine: > At the same time, there are co-workers who are questioning whether they can safely express their views in the workplace (especially those with a minority viewpoint) . They too feel under threat, and that is also not OK. People must feel free to express dissent. So to be clear again, many points raised in the memo—such as the portions criticizing Google’s trainings,…

Also from the memo: > However, portions of the memo violate our Code of Conduct and cross the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes in our workplace. Our job is to build great products for users that make a difference in their lives. To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK. It is contrary to our basic values and our Code of C…

You may be right, but later in the note Pichai himself writes:

> ...we need to find a way to debate issues on which we might disagree—while doing so in line with our Code of Conduct

As if admitting that currently there are no avenues for open discussion on highly controversial topics such as this one or at least none that do not clash with the Code of Conduct.

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#150

Post by cnlwsu »

Keep politics/religion out of work. Its one thing to rant on reddit at end of day, its another to broadcast it to co workers. What did he expect would happen? His little write up would change everyones mind? Both left/right are extremists these days and will never change. All you will do is alienate and anger a bunch of co workers for a few pats on back from "your" side. While the smart people will put heads down and get actual work done at work and talk politics at end of day at a bar with friends/family like the rest of the country.
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