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Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

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Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#181

Post by Cyph0n »

markvdb wrote: post #145
othello wrote: post #14

The surprising fact here is that this can mostly be explained pretty well as the lessons of WW2 still being vivid in the memory of many countries...except that Russia suffered by far the most of any countries on the Western front, and still a majority there would fight a war for their own country. The persistent glorification of Russia's role in WW2 (although historically justified) might have something to do with it…

> The persistent glorification of Russia's role in WW2 (although historically justified) Nazi Germany lost WWII largely because of the USSR indeed. That does not justify glorification of the USSR. It justifies celebrating liberation from nazism only.

Maybe not glorification, but definitely respect and appreciation for their sacrifice.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#182

Post by usrusr »

alkonaut wrote: post #112
keganunderwood wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how this is possible outside of science fiction but I wonder how popular military service would be on a historical timeline, all else being equal but the variables being we turn on or off a livable basic income and free of cost health care (like medicare) for all. Would people still be eager to join the US military?

The military as a refuge for those who would otherwise have a hard time finding work/education/healthcare etc is probably a US phenomenon - and the US military probably would be less attractive if more progressive politics meant better conditions for all. In countries with pro armies outside the US I believe it's more like any other job such as a policeman. In countries with conscription it's not even a job, it's mor…

While the US might be an outlier amongst postindustrial western countries in terms of the military being a survival opportunity for the poor, in the grand historical picture this has probably been the norm more often than the exception. When lost crops meant that you would not likely survive the next winter, a plundering army could count on a steady supply of recruits, much like a fire uses its own great to prepare the raw fuel for quick oxidation.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#183

Post by juki »

aqsalose wrote: post #146
bambax wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is closer to Russia than France, and yet less "willing" to go to war. Japan with 11% is really amazing, and yet it's near real threats with China and North Korea. It would seem, countries who remember what war is actually like, would rather not fight; that would explain the results of Japan, Germany, France, Spain, the UK. The only exception is Russia, who suffered immensely during WW2 and yet would apparentl…

Finland participated in the WW2, moreover, also on the side that lost the war.

Of course one should remember that Finland lost WW2 "better" than most countries won it. In fact, many Finns will say that it was a victory. While the war was brutal, Finland is one of the few countries where the casualities were mostly limited to the military. There were only ~2000 civilian deaths. Finland was never occupied[1] and there was no large scale bombing of cities. Finland remained an independent democracy, and prospered after the war. The contrast to the rest of Eastern Europe is pretty stark.

[1]: Only one major Finnish city (Viipuri) was occupied by the USSR (after the civilian population of the city was evacuated).

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#184

Post by YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 »

bambax wrote: post #88
kartan wrote: post #16

It looks like the closer you are to a thread, the most willing are you to fight. Being close to Russian is a good indicator on how much you are willing to go to war. So I agree with other comments, probably people that feels threatened read the question as "I'm willing to protect my country from an outside attacker". While people in "safer" places read it as "I'm willing to go to war with another country for some str…

Germany is closer to Russia than France, and yet less "willing" to go to war. Japan with 11% is really amazing, and yet it's near real threats with China and North Korea. It would seem, countries who remember what war is actually like, would rather not fight; that would explain the results of Japan, Germany, France, Spain, the UK. The only exception is Russia, who suffered immensely during WW2 and yet would apparentl…

Your insight doesn't seem to apply even to the small subset of countries you decided to check it on, which really makes it look more like your preconceived ideal rather than anything you read from this map, no?

I think other explanations (including geographically induced ways of interpreting the question) are rather more likely.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#185

Post by oblio »

metafunctor wrote: post #139

In Finland, the army exists for the purpose of defending Finland against attack. Hence the name: Finnish Defence Forces. Finnish males serve a mandatory 6-12 months in the Finnish Defence Forces. It's a citizen's duty here; some people opt for a civil service duty. Thus, when asked a question like this, most Finns will automatically assume defending Finland against a military attack.

While I agree with you, the first point is not as solid as it seems. "Wehrmacht" also means "defense force" :)

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#186

Post by democracy »

vacri wrote: post #128
democracy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that not only Russia marched through Europe but also UK/USA but unless fighting Hitler was a bad idea I hardly see a problem with this fact, now do you?

In what tortured version of modern-day politics can you possibly see the UK or the US invading Germany, even in a pipe dream?

Not sure about a pipe dream but there are 30k strong US group in Germany as we speak. Some people might have different views on this fact.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#187

Post by asfdsfggtfd »

aqsalose wrote: post #146
bambax wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is closer to Russia than France, and yet less "willing" to go to war. Japan with 11% is really amazing, and yet it's near real threats with China and North Korea. It would seem, countries who remember what war is actually like, would rather not fight; that would explain the results of Japan, Germany, France, Spain, the UK. The only exception is Russia, who suffered immensely during WW2 and yet would apparentl…

Finland participated in the WW2, moreover, also on the side that lost the war.

This reads like Finland was a willing Nazi ally which is unfair. Finland fought a parallel war to the rest of the world. They spent the whole time defending themselves against invasion from Russia. When Russia was invaded by Germany their former allies stopped supporting them and they had to seek what help they could get.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#188

Post by arethuza »

vetinari wrote: post #178
arethuza wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at the start both France and the UK actually considered sending troops to assist Finland against the Soviets - this was when the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact was in place so the Soviets were effectively Nazi allies at that point.

Almost all European countries had Molotov-Ribbentrop-like pact with Germany, including UK and Poland. MR-pact was just the last one; made after UK and France sabotaged Molotov's effort to make pact with them and after the Austrian Anschluss and breaking of Czechoslovakia. They wanted Germany to attack the USSR and not to be bound to help, just like they looked the other way after Poland was attacked later that year.

Yes, but only the Soviets joined in with the Germans in invading Poland!

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#189

Post by NoGravitas »

pjc50 wrote: post #135
lorenzfx wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before WW1 people also believed that large scale European conflict couldn't happen any more because of the economic entanglement. In hindsight, that notion looks pretty stupid.

Currently we believe it's impossible due to nuclear weapons - there wouldn't be anything left to fight over or with.

I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. - Albert Einstein

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#190

Post by kevin_b_er »

gabipurcaru wrote: post #6

the red and blue colors suggest that less is worse. Why would that be the case? It seems like it should ideally be the opposite, if anything

To put it bluntly: Because they stand at risk from invasion by Russia. The notion is that they're too complacent in spite of Russia's invasion of Ukraine and its current propaganda campaign of Novorossia around Lithuania.
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