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Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

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Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#161

Post by Belphemur »

batushka wrote: post #159
apexalpha wrote: post #137

Is the question asked "Fight for your country" as in defend it from foreign invaders, like my country (NL) was during World War 2, or like Ukraine is now by Russia? Or is this "Fight for your country" as in join team America in invading Afghanistan and Iraq and ? Because the first one: probably, yes. The second? No thank you.

>Or is this "Fight for your country" as in join team America in invading Afghanistan and Iraq and ? >Because the first one: probably, yes. The second? No thank you. Typical NATO free rider. Do you have the word ALLY in your culture?

An ally come to help when in needs.

America wedged war for financial gain not for helping anybody. Why its ally would need to help when there is a no real need for the war in the first place.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#162

Post by Belphemur »

metafunctor wrote: post #139

In Finland, the army exists for the purpose of defending Finland against attack. Hence the name: Finnish Defence Forces. Finnish males serve a mandatory 6-12 months in the Finnish Defence Forces. It's a citizen's duty here; some people opt for a civil service duty. Thus, when asked a question like this, most Finns will automatically assume defending Finland against a military attack.

A little of geographical context could help other understand, Finland situation.

Finland has a border with Russia and a big history with them.

Lots of Finn I met think Russia could come any day hence the need for a military force ready to fight.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#163

Post by EugeneAZ »

arethuza wrote: post #104
EugeneAZ wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SMS Direct Democracy with the right of citizens to secede. And professional military, of course, like in the USA. You make war much rarer thereby.

Does having a professional military leads to fewer wars - the UK has had a preference for professional military for centuries and it didn't stop us invading a significant proportion of the world!

Professional military (by definition) force politicians to spend money on them.

So, every conflict becomes measurable in terms of money. Thus, citizens become aware of the true cost of it. When you have conscription, you cannot measure how much each of the soldiers loses in terms of money - they don't ask them such a question deliberately.

Also, when all citizens (women and "disabled") are forced to pay for the military equally, they will tend less to be provoked into a war - it may cost too much for them. Get it?

By the way, I would support new British Empire, if its authorities would be decent people (as it usually happened). I'm from Ukraine : )

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#164

Post by fsloth »

maze-le wrote: post #116
fsloth wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the definition includes defence. Otherwise it would not be applicable in any foreseeable scenario to e.g. Finland.

Would you be willing to defend your country in the Hindukush mountains? The definition of 'Defence' can be streched and bend in various ways. You can be sure, that in the end almost every casus belli is in 'defense' of 'your country' or 'your countrymen' or 'your values'.

Pacifism is not always a tenable strategy for piece.

Finland has a population of 5M. Russia has 144M. Russia has been a wanton overbearing opportunist when it comes to foreign policy. Now, in this particular instance, which policy from Finlands part do you think leads more likelier to a future of non-invasion: a) cordial relationships and a standing army b) cordial relationships.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#165

Post by Aeolun »

derefr wrote: post #44
blowski wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Would I be willing to fight a war because a fascist superpower was killing millions of human beings in my country? Probably, yes. Would I risk my life to protect the Conservative Party and banking institutions? Less likely.

Would you be willing to be part of a pre-emptive attack against a much more prosperous neighbouring country with empire-building aspirations? How about a pre-emptive attack against a country where populist polls show overwhelming support for invading your country, even if its current administration is against the idea? How about joining in to defend one neighbour against another, aggressor neighbour—one which you hav…

So we should have asked these questions, instead of the irrelevant one that was actually asked :/

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#166

Post by yflu »

batushka wrote: post #159
apexalpha wrote: post #137

Is the question asked "Fight for your country" as in defend it from foreign invaders, like my country (NL) was during World War 2, or like Ukraine is now by Russia? Or is this "Fight for your country" as in join team America in invading Afghanistan and Iraq and ? Because the first one: probably, yes. The second? No thank you.

>Or is this "Fight for your country" as in join team America in invading Afghanistan and Iraq and ? >Because the first one: probably, yes. The second? No thank you. Typical NATO free rider. Do you have the word ALLY in your culture?

If you go running into a burning building, you can't expect your allies to do the same.

We might, but that's on our own volition, not out of any obligation.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#167

Post by maze-le »

fsloth wrote: post #164
maze-le wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be willing to defend your country in the Hindukush mountains? The definition of 'Defence' can be streched and bend in various ways. You can be sure, that in the end almost every casus belli is in 'defense' of 'your country' or 'your countrymen' or 'your values'.

Pacifism is not always a tenable strategy for piece. Finland has a population of 5M. Russia has 144M. Russia has been a wanton overbearing opportunist when it comes to foreign policy. Now, in this particular instance, which policy from Finlands part do you think leads more likelier to a future of non-invasion: a) cordial relationships and a standing army b) cordial relationships.

a) to be sure. But I am not advocating for a world without military, this would be an utopia, but not realistic (sadly). I just wanted to point out, that the word 'defense' can also be used to justify a war of aggression.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#168

Post by misja111 »

batushka wrote: post #159
apexalpha wrote: post #137

Is the question asked "Fight for your country" as in defend it from foreign invaders, like my country (NL) was during World War 2, or like Ukraine is now by Russia? Or is this "Fight for your country" as in join team America in invading Afghanistan and Iraq and ? Because the first one: probably, yes. The second? No thank you.

>Or is this "Fight for your country" as in join team America in invading Afghanistan and Iraq and ? >Because the first one: probably, yes. The second? No thank you. Typical NATO free rider. Do you have the word ALLY in your culture?

The NATO is a mutual defence pact.

Are you saying that the USA invaded Iraq to defend itself? Otherwise its NATO allies had no obligation at all to go out and help with the invasion.

Actually the USA government should have listened to NATO allies such as France who warned that the invasion was a mistake.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#169

Post by batushka »

yflu wrote: post #166
batushka wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Or is this "Fight for your country" as in join team America in invading Afghanistan and Iraq and ? >Because the first one: probably, yes. The second? No thank you. Typical NATO free rider. Do you have the word ALLY in your culture?

If you go running into a burning building, you can't expect your allies to do the same. We might, but that's on our own volition, not out of any obligation.

Sure, just remember that it works both ways. When your house will burn and you'll be desperate, have a persuasive story ready.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#170

Post by batushka »

Belphemur wrote: post #161
batushka wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Or is this "Fight for your country" as in join team America in invading Afghanistan and Iraq and ? >Because the first one: probably, yes. The second? No thank you. Typical NATO free rider. Do you have the word ALLY in your culture?

An ally come to help when in needs. America wedged war for financial gain not for helping anybody. Why its ally would need to help when there is a no real need for the war in the first place.

Never heard of war that wasn't smeared by other side. When rooskies bombed Finland, Molotov told they're delivering bread baskets to starving Finns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_bread_basket
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