Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

blog.google

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 423 posts

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#51

Post by jamesrcole »

onion2k wrote: post #32
jamesrcole wrote: post #13

By firing the employee, Google is sending a strong signal that they will not tolerate a diversity of opinions. That does not bode well for them, for a restrictive intellectual environment is anathema to the kind of intelligent people they want to hire to keep the company competitive.

a restrictive intellectual environment is anathema to the kind of intelligent people they want to hire to keep the company competitive So what? This action might be damaging to Google's bottom line (I doubt it) but that's actually less important that running a company in the way the overwhelming majority of employees want it to be run. To use an ad absurdum argument - if it could be demonstrated that people who are o…

I've already covered the "So what?". I explained what I think the consequences are likely to be, and why I think that.

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#52

Post by Swizec »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #28

This thread seems to be a perfect demonstration of the problems when it comes to diversity in tech. People just don't seem to get it. I see the same thing in threads around big SV names sexually harassing women (and in those cases it blows my mind even more that people don't get that it's a problem). It seems like a lot of people are basing their opinions on logic (fine) but in a perfect world where everyone has equa…

My favorite explanation of this effect goes like this: You have students in a classroom, sitting in 5 rows of 5 students. The teacher gives each student a crumpled ball of paper. Each ball is identical. The teacher then places a bin at the very front of the class and says "Okay, you each get one throw from your seat. If you hit the bin, you get an A"

Equal opportunity. Everyone is throwing the same ball into the same bin, and everyone gets a chance to throw their ball of paper, hit the bin, and get an A.

But some students are 5ft away and others are 30ft away. Suddenly not so fair.

This comic also explains it well: http://imgur.com/gallery/h82vC

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#53

Post by granitosaurus »

baltimore12 wrote: post #38
koolba wrote: post #5

Quoting Sundar Pichai (Google CEO), emphasis mine: > At the same time, there are co-workers who are questioning whether they can safely express their views in the workplace (especially those with a minority viewpoint) . They too feel under threat, and that is also not OK. People must feel free to express dissent. So to be clear again, many points raised in the memo—such as the portions criticizing Google’s trainings,…

We all know that men and women are different but under no circumstances can you club a large section of population and say they are inferior in some respect ... hitler did it with the Jews, whites did it to the blacks , Japanese did it to the Chinese and history is rife with extreme examples of the Dangers of generalization of a large section of population. Our job as human civilization is to evolve positively and to…

Did you really compare this to racial _genocides_?

Maybe men are slightly better at something and maybe women are slightly better at other things - why is this an issue? Clearly the difference is not remotelly big enough to be impactful since we see men and women work in every profession. Average worker skill is pretty low so this "genetic advantage" would only really matter at top 0.1% of professionals.

e.g. women are worse at some sports like Tennis, but to most people it will never matter since only few people play at that level where genetics can give you an edge.

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#54

Post by te_chris »

kbart wrote: post #17
pimmen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the note basically says; starting a debate does not excuse you from suggesting that some of your co-workers are there because of a "lowered bar", your evidence being psuedo-scientific bullshit about the tech-skill distribution among minorities and women.

"your evidence being psuedo-scientific bullshit" *Citation needed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/07/silico...

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#55

Post by [deleted] »

se2 wrote: post #10
koolba wrote: post #5

Quoting Sundar Pichai (Google CEO), emphasis mine: > At the same time, there are co-workers who are questioning whether they can safely express their views in the workplace (especially those with a minority viewpoint) . They too feel under threat, and that is also not OK. People must feel free to express dissent. So to be clear again, many points raised in the memo—such as the portions criticizing Google’s trainings,…

I believe you have misconstrued the message Sundar was giving. The difference between having the freedom to speak one's mind, and breaching a code of conduct that you sign when you agree to work for Google is clear cut in his note.

[deleted]

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#57

Post by ai_ja_nai »

cdubzzz wrote: post #24
lagadu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By firing the employee they're effectively sending out a strong message about it no matter how they sugarcoat it.

A strong message about breaking the code of conduct, yes. The message here seems abundantly clear and I have trouble understanding how it can miscontrued to be anything other than reacting to a clear violation. I can't even think of how to restate what is so clearly laid out in the note. I wouldn't rule out the potential that there is uneven enforcement of such violations, and that would make this action look questio…

Banning free speech is unconstitutional. Any "Code of Conduct" or other self proclaiming binding clauses on your contract that try to go against your constitutional rights should be void.

Re: Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

#58

Post by humanrebar »

oddlyaromatic wrote: post #40
naturalgradient wrote: post #7

There is just no winning in the following chain of arguments: - We can debate anything - However, some views are too harmful to be debated - Whoever is most vocally outraged decides the boundary between open to debate/too harmful

The memo itself was incoherent. Many of its statements made sense for debate, and the author himself pointed out that you can't tell much about any individual from the general data, which I think has not been focused on enough. He seemed to think he was doing everybody a service and that his views were not detrimental to anybody. But the actual choices in how to express the generalities showed really bad judgement an…

> An incoherent companywide memo is not the best way to start a debate on a sensitive topic.

What is the best way?

Post reply on HN