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Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

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Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#121

Post by ascorbic »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #32
othello wrote: post #14

The surprising fact here is that this can mostly be explained pretty well as the lessons of WW2 still being vivid in the memory of many countries...except that Russia suffered by far the most of any countries on the Western front, and still a majority there would fight a war for their own country. The persistent glorification of Russia's role in WW2 (although historically justified) might have something to do with it…

From the article Since World War Two, Europe has been relatively peaceful with major exceptions of the Yugoslav Wars in the 1990s and various political suppressions during the Cold War. However, the 19th century was also a relatively peaceful time for Europe that ended with the start of World War I. So no, the vividity of the world wars is popular but unconvincing.

Most Europeans have known living relatives who lived under bombardment or occupation. We may have lived in relative peace since then, but that's largely because the cultural memory of it is still so strong. This is what the precursor of the EU was created to ensure.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#122

Post by lorenzfx »

0xbear wrote: post #38

Understandable. Germany has experienced crushing, humiliating defeat not once, but twice in a hundred years, and the second time it was abundandtly clear that they were on the wrong side of history. No wonder the fightin' spirit hasn't recovered. That said, when certain substances start hitting the fan, no one will ask you whether you want to fight. Read some WW2 memoirs: the shit was so horrific that even hardened p…

Unfortunately, the first time wasn't as crushing as the second time, at least it wasn't perceived as such.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#123

Post by kochthesecond »

dom0 wrote: post #40
kartan wrote: post #16

It looks like the closer you are to a thread, the most willing are you to fight. Being close to Russian is a good indicator on how much you are willing to go to war. So I agree with other comments, probably people that feels threatened read the question as "I'm willing to protect my country from an outside attacker". While people in "safer" places read it as "I'm willing to go to war with another country for some str…

> It looks like the closer you are to a thread, the most willing are you to fight. I don't think its that simple. The question is "willing to fight a war". German people have learned that when Germany goes to war it is usually not for the best of the country. On the other hand, Germany had "the threat" next door for 40+ years and the willingness to defend was very high. So I think when you ask Germans this question,…

I also think they interpret it this way in Finland (can anyone more familiar comment?). Finland has conscription service in their armed forces, where they focus on a defensive war to protect their country. This might pull them towards the defensive interpretation of 'willing to fight a war'.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#124

Post by lorenzfx »

charlesdm wrote: post #60
ddnb wrote: post #3

Belgian here, as a resident of one of the bottom 3 countries I have to say I thought about this question myself a few times in the past. Even though I would never join the army to fight wars, should an occupation come I would do everything in my power to resist and sabotage. So to this question I would have to answer 'no' even though that doesn't mean I'd give up on my country.

Belgian too, but would personally never join the army. I would however, find a way to relocate myself + loved ones to a more safer place. I would totally give up on this country. Home is where you hang your hat, and being with the people you care about (and knowing that they are safe) matters a lot more than some border on a map.

I am very glad that your and a lot of other people's ancestors didn't think like that or we would probably all live under a fascist regime.

edit: a word

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#125

Post by e12e »

bambax wrote: post #88
kartan wrote: post #16

It looks like the closer you are to a thread, the most willing are you to fight. Being close to Russian is a good indicator on how much you are willing to go to war. So I agree with other comments, probably people that feels threatened read the question as "I'm willing to protect my country from an outside attacker". While people in "safer" places read it as "I'm willing to go to war with another country for some str…

Germany is closer to Russia than France, and yet less "willing" to go to war. Japan with 11% is really amazing, and yet it's near real threats with China and North Korea. It would seem, countries who remember what war is actually like, would rather not fight; that would explain the results of Japan, Germany, France, Spain, the UK. The only exception is Russia, who suffered immensely during WW2 and yet would apparentl…

> Japan with 11% is really amazing, and yet it's near real threats with China and North Korea.

And Russia. Japan was the first industrial country to win a war with Russia, so there's some history there as well as with the rest of the Pacific.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#126

Post by charlesdm »

lorenzfx wrote: post #124
charlesdm wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belgian too, but would personally never join the army. I would however, find a way to relocate myself + loved ones to a more safer place. I would totally give up on this country. Home is where you hang your hat, and being with the people you care about (and knowing that they are safe) matters a lot more than some border on a map.

I am very glad that your and a lot of other people's ancestors didn't think like that or we would probably all live under a fascist regime. edit: a word

Definitely grateful for the sacrifices that have been made in the past, but I'm looking at things based on how the world is set up today. It has become a much smaller place -- people and capital can move around more easily.

I've personally never had a very strong national identity (others do seem to have that), and I think in part it's because it has become so easy to move around.

And if you travel a bit, you realise people are actually not all that different. A lot of them have similar priorities: build out a good life, raise children, care for their friends and loved ones, have fun, etc.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#127

Post by CalRobert »

charlesdm wrote: post #60
ddnb wrote: post #3

Belgian here, as a resident of one of the bottom 3 countries I have to say I thought about this question myself a few times in the past. Even though I would never join the army to fight wars, should an occupation come I would do everything in my power to resist and sabotage. So to this question I would have to answer 'no' even though that doesn't mean I'd give up on my country.

Belgian too, but would personally never join the army. I would however, find a way to relocate myself + loved ones to a more safer place. I would totally give up on this country. Home is where you hang your hat, and being with the people you care about (and knowing that they are safe) matters a lot more than some border on a map.

" loved ones to a more safer place."

The trouble arises when there are no more safe places, or when you along with millions of other people are desperately trying to get to said safer place (note the refugees currently in limbo in Turkey and elsewhere)

Where would you go when Western Europe is invaded? New Zealand? North Africa? The former is hard to get to, and any trouble befalling Europe could spread to the latter.

With Pax Americana coming to an end I think a lot of people who've had the luxury of forgetting that power and force are a thing will be cruelly reminded of it. It's hard to maintain a liberal democratic utopia when your neighbor's tanks are rolling through.

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#128

Post by vacri »

democracy wrote: post #73
vacri wrote: post #37

This seems like one of those questions that definitely can't be studied with a survey. The context of 'fighting for your country' differs quite a lot; there's a major difference between fighting a defensive war against a brutal opponent and fighting an irrelevant war on the other side of the world. Look at the US, and how many soldiers signed up to "fight for their country" in the invasion of Iraq, a country that nev…

You realize that not only Russia marched through Europe but also UK/USA but unless fighting Hitler was a bad idea I hardly see a problem with this fact, now do you?

In what tortured version of modern-day politics can you possibly see the UK or the US invading Germany, even in a pipe dream?

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#129

Post by charlesdm »

CalRobert wrote: post #127
charlesdm wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belgian too, but would personally never join the army. I would however, find a way to relocate myself + loved ones to a more safer place. I would totally give up on this country. Home is where you hang your hat, and being with the people you care about (and knowing that they are safe) matters a lot more than some border on a map.

" loved ones to a more safer place." The trouble arises when there are no more safe places, or when you along with millions of other people are desperately trying to get to said safer place (note the refugees currently in limbo in Turkey and elsewhere) Where would you go when Western Europe is invaded? New Zealand? North Africa? The former is hard to get to, and any trouble befalling Europe could spread to the latter…

South Africa? South America? Australia? Hell, even Greenland could work. They might not all be optimal choices, but anything is better than war. Guess it would depend on the situation, and where the conflict is.

Part of it is making sure you have resources to pay for stuff if something goes wrong, e.g. don't hold all of your money in a local bank account. In such a situation, if all your funds are held in local bank accounts, since they'll likely get frozen to some extent, you're essentially fucked.

All in all, given the bank bailout rules introduced by the EU a few years ago (look at what happened in Cyprus), it's probably not a bad idea to keep some funds in separate accounts... healthy paranoia?

Re: Percentage of Europeans Who Are Willing to Fight a War for Their Country

#130

Post by blowski »

derefr wrote: post #44
blowski wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Would I be willing to fight a war because a fascist superpower was killing millions of human beings in my country? Probably, yes. Would I risk my life to protect the Conservative Party and banking institutions? Less likely.

Would you be willing to be part of a pre-emptive attack against a much more prosperous neighbouring country with empire-building aspirations? How about a pre-emptive attack against a country where populist polls show overwhelming support for invading your country, even if its current administration is against the idea? How about joining in to defend one neighbour against another, aggressor neighbour—one which you hav…

Absolutely. Whether or not I'd risk my life would depend on a lot of things.
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