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Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
531–540 of 1001 posts
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#532This is starting to be scary. Instead of government companies are acting as thought police. I think a lot of people will watch what they are saying publicly from now on.
I would be curious to know at which point in history one could circulate a memo around the office which embarrassed the company and insulted half the workforce without repercussion.
I find it so bizarre people get this interpretation - it's completely nonsensical. Point: "Chinese tend to be short so not many of them go into basketball". Counterpoint: "I'm Chinese and 6'5" are you saying I'm short and bad at basketball?"
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#533the author of the memo is completely correct and, as others have said, his memo is drastically misrepresented in the coverage it has received. he simply points out that women could have less desire to go into fields such as cs because of their biological makeup. he never says that women should leave google -- he only says that trying to reach a perfectly equal distribution is misguided. perhaps those who are red in t…
> the author of the memo is completely correct and, as others have said, his memo is drastically misrepresented in the coverage it has received. he simply points out that women could have less desire to go into fields such as cs because of their biological makeup.
I'm not sure you read the memo? The author never provided evidence for this claim - it's pure speculation. The only points he's able to support with science are the statements that there are biological differences between men and women. Quote:
"Women generally also have a stronger interest in people rather than things, relative to men (also interpreted as empathizing vs. systemizing)"
That is accompanied with citations. OK, sure, let's take that at face value.
Next, he says:
"These two differences in part explain why women relatively prefer jobs in social or artistic areas. More men may like coding because it requires systemizing and even within SWEs, comparatively more women work on front end, which deals with both people and aesthetics"
No citation, no nothing here - just pure guessing on his part. If you're going to make an assertion like this, you need evidence - just, "it makes sense to me!" isn't proving anything. I find it surprising and disappointing that so many fail to read this memo critically.
> men and women are not the same. The author is completely correct?
No one is saying men and women are the same. Similarly, no one is providing evidence to back up your and the author's assertions.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#534The author's arguments have been completely misrepresented. He pointed out widely-believed and sometimes scientifically-established differences in the DISTRIBUTION OF traits in men and women. He said that those differences make attempts to achieve numerical parity misguided, discriminatory, and harmful. What is his conclusion about how we should behave? "Treat people as individuals, not as just another member of thei…
I agree that the author's arguments have been misrepresented, but as much by the author as anyone else. What we have is someone who is trying to couch borderline crazy views as reasonable and thoughtful and is smart enough to keep the lid on his underlying opinions with some success. But, read the author's footnotes for a real tl;dr -- he baldly states without evidence (indeed contrary to all the literature) that wom…
According to professor of economics at Harvard, Claudia Goldin, the gender pay-gap is mostly explained by women self-selecting into lower-paying professions and by choosing to work jobs with more flexibility in hours and time off. If I am understanding her correctly, equal pay for equal work is reality or close to reality.
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-true-story-of-the-gender...
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#535Reading the letter, what surprised me was how political it was, framing everything as a "left vs right" cultural fight. I think if it was up to me I'd probably fire anybody on either side of that debate who started circulating shit like this. As soon as you're on that level, nothing good is going to come of it and you're just going to make a lot of people angry, which is very bad for the business in a lot of differen…
You would fire anyone who voiced any political view? Regardless of being correct? What kind of managerial strategy is that?
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#536Every time I read about women in tech discrimination problem I keep wondering: is it supposed to be specific to US or global?
Are there any countries that could serve as an counter-example? That is, has numerical parity between men and women in tech ever been achieved without implementing targeted diversity policies?
It would be great to have an example. "Look at country X! Their society doesn't discriminate based on gender, they are not promoting gender-specific roles, and as a result representation of women in tech / stem is equal to men".
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#537They decided he was a witch, and he was burned at the stake. That's it in a nutshell. They won't much enjoy a world where these new rules they've created might apply to them.
While I don't agree with a lot of premises of the manifesto, I can't shake off a feeling that I just witnessed something very close to a real witch hunt.
Curiously Curtis Yarvin wrote about this kind of witch hunt a few years ago: https://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2013/09/techno...
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#538The author's arguments have been completely misrepresented. He pointed out widely-believed and sometimes scientifically-established differences in the DISTRIBUTION OF traits in men and women. He said that those differences make attempts to achieve numerical parity misguided, discriminatory, and harmful. What is his conclusion about how we should behave? "Treat people as individuals, not as just another member of thei…
This response has the tone of justification by exactly the very minds condemned as being closed.
I read the article which attempts to establish as fact very clearly unsubstantiated subjective claims. Never mind the toxicity -- the dude is just flat wrong.
"Treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group."
I totally agree, and this individual got his due.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#539The author's arguments have been completely misrepresented. He pointed out widely-believed and sometimes scientifically-established differences in the DISTRIBUTION OF traits in men and women. He said that those differences make attempts to achieve numerical parity misguided, discriminatory, and harmful. What is his conclusion about how we should behave? "Treat people as individuals, not as just another member of thei…
It's not about virtue signaling, he was almost certain to be terminated just because it was a ridiculously stupid thing to say - you can't tell your teammates that they were hired because their employer lowered the bar and expect people not to be upset about it (and that's 100% what he did, he also made up pseudo-scientific bullshit to try to justify it, but he flat out insulted countless people within his company).…
You really ought to read his document before commenting. And when you do, keep an eye outfor any quote whatsoever that says justifies your claims. You won't find one.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#540I haven't read the memo but I have read some summaries of it. Even before the memo was released I had a negative opinion of it. Not because someone spoke out their mind but because someone decided to just go and shout out their obviously controversial beliefs to the world expecting for his ideas to be taken seriously and for there to be no negative consequences. If you want people to care about what you think and hav…
1. He worked for Google . One could argue that he wouldn't have been hired in the first place without "cultivating a positive reputation." 2. He earned his PhD in Biology at Harvard University. What, in your opinion, should James Damore have additionally done to ensure that his thesis would be taken seriously?
Cited primary sources, linked his biological argument to his workplace argument with something other than handwaving, avoiding tying his scientific argument to a related but not equivalent political argument, taken into account evidence collected from women who've left the industry and ensured that his model accounted for that, and, uh, basically written an actual thesis? If I'd submitted work like this as an undergraduate I'd have got it back with a lot of red ink and a pretty terrible grade.
(I work for Google and have a PhD in Biology from Cambridge University)