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Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

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Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#341

Post by jcrben »

tptacek wrote: post #20
sna1l wrote: post #5

Not a lawyer, but will he have a case to sue for wrongful termination? I guess without seeing the employee contract and Code of Conduct, it is hard to say.

Unless the Google contract departs from boilerplate California employment contracts in ways highly disadvantageous to one of the largest, most legally savvy firms in the state, it is unlikely that Google needs a documented reason to fire anybody, so long as they aren't retaliating against them for concrete protected concerted actions in labor organization or retaliating against them for defending their rights as a pr…

Employment practices insurance in California is typically triple the rest of the country due to favorable plaintiff laws and loss experience.

Source: reviewed many regulatory actuarial filings, which are public record - mine were in Alaska but you might find the same by trawling thru https://fortress.wa.gov/oic/onlinefilingsearch/ or http://www.insurance.ca.gov/0250-insurers/0800-rate-filings/

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#342

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #20
sna1l wrote: post #5

Not a lawyer, but will he have a case to sue for wrongful termination? I guess without seeing the employee contract and Code of Conduct, it is hard to say.

Unless the Google contract departs from boilerplate California employment contracts in ways highly disadvantageous to one of the largest, most legally savvy firms in the state, it is unlikely that Google needs a documented reason to fire anybody, so long as they aren't retaliating against them for concrete protected concerted actions in labor organization or retaliating against them for defending their rights as a pr…

[deleted]

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#343

Post by throw_away_777 »

msabalau wrote: post #152
wyclif wrote: post #31

Fun fact: the author of the memo earned a PhD in Biology from Harvard. Google can fire him and get away with it, but it's going to be tough, very tough, for him to be falsely characterized as someone who is misinformed or unscientific. And the court of public opinion may well be more important in this controversy than any court of law.

It's not clear why anyone would think his experience with yeast microbes translates into any relevant insight on the topics he discussed.

Clearly scientific training does have at least some credence to scientific arguments.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#344

Post by tunesmith »

jorgemf wrote: post #235
tunesmith wrote: post #123

People can't seem to summarize his argument without getting much of it grossly wrong, because his manifesto was a haphazard collection of good points, bad points, good arguments, lousy arguments, misrepresentations of others' views, and unstated implications. A perfect recipe for people to argue past each other about it. It's worth remembering that one of his conclusions was to end or replace gender-based diversity p…

> If gender-based diversity programs are responsible for qualified women getting jobs that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten due to bias, then the lack of that program means those women wouldn't have gotten those jobs. This is a double sword thing. With the program you might hire more qualified women, but also more less qualified women and you might prevent of hiring more qualified men. Because you have to hire wom…

Assuming you're not a woman or minority, don't be so sure that's what you would prefer (unless you're saying you would prefer there were no bias at all, in which case, duh). There are women and minorities that have benefited from such programs, and absolutely do not feel guilty by it, because they believe that in the absence of those programs, the unfair disadvantage would have exceeded any "unfair advantage" the program gave them.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#345

Post by acomjean »

zorpner wrote: post #25

Good. I get that HN is not into this, but this employee stated, bluntly, that they don't believe many of their colleagues should be there because of their sex. Every peer review, every no-hire, every interaction , is and should be suspect. Happy where I am now, but future interviews will include me asking what management would do about this, and termination is the only correct answer. This is textbook hostile environ…

This: Its about the work environment.

My partner was a female chip designer who after 25 years got out of the business (in start up, saved up for early retirement..) Being an early employee well compensated. She loved her work, but not the environment, which while not outright hostile, wasn't good. She's got thick skin. Its the environment thats keeping women out, not the work. If you don't think your getting a fair shake, you aren't going to stick around.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#347

Post by [deleted] »

CPAhem wrote: post #196

Dare I say, but people should be employed for their abilities not their gender, race or value to some checklist. Those who develop greater abilities through study should find greater opportunities in work, regardless of their gender, race, sexual orientation or negative score on some diversity checklist.

[deleted]

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#348

Post by gorbachev »

jorgemf wrote: post #77
friedman23 wrote: post #15

I haven't read the memo but I have read some summaries of it. Even before the memo was released I had a negative opinion of it. Not because someone spoke out their mind but because someone decided to just go and shout out their obviously controversial beliefs to the world expecting for his ideas to be taken seriously and for there to be no negative consequences. If you want people to care about what you think and hav…

Other commenter here said he has a PhD in Biology from Harvard. I think it should give him some credit about what he said.

If I had a PhD in Computer Science, and I write a 10-page manifesto about biology, should it instantly be believable too?

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#349

Post by packetslave »

escape_goat wrote: post #203

The best explanation of why he was going to be fired and why that was the right thing to do (that I read) came from Yonatan Zunger, who had recently left a Human Resources position at Google; especially his third point, in the following post on Medium: https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-man... In many way, it was not an unfamiliar sort of rant for the internet, and I was struck by the author's e…

A slight correction: Yonatan wasn't in Human Resources, he was a very senior and well-respected long-time software engineer and architect.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#350

Post by dcow »

CharlesW wrote: post #289
dcow wrote: post #174

This is why I'll never work for Google. Plain and simple.

Because they fire people who make stupid decisions?

The correct response is:

"As a company we do not agree with X's opinion on the assessment of the work environment or our diversity practices. Any further queries on the matter should be directed at X."

As other has mentioned, it's very likely X will take legal action against Google because what they've done is very reasonably arguably illegal.

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