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Firing expected of Google employee who penned controversial memo on women

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Re: Firing expected of Google employee who penned controversial memo on women

#11

Post by [deleted] »

hellogoodbyeeee wrote: post #3
eelliott wrote: post #2

I've noticed some people on Twitter, including Susan Fowler and Kara Swisher, saying free speech is only a protection against government intrusion and doesn't apply in the corporate sector. That seems to be mirrored in this article. The only thing I'd say is that those people should think carefully. Denouncing and shrinking rights such as free speech and normalising their role as negative rights when it is convenient…

I think you missed the point. Nobody is shrinking or denouncing rights because right of free speech never protected against corporate sector sanctions. You are the one who is trying to expand free speech to protect you in places that no one intended.

[deleted]

Re: Firing expected of Google employee who penned controversial memo on women

#12

Post by flukus »

> He added: “To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK.”

So now the CEO of one of the richest companies on earth is on record blatantly misinterpreting what the guy wrote. This is the wildest dream of every unfair dismissal lawyer the world over, they'll be lining up at his doorstep to take on the job.

Aside from that, it's a text book example of why codes of conduct are such an awful idea, they're a weapon designed to be used against anyone who steps out of line. Usually vague enough that most people will violate it, but only wrongthinkers will be punished for it.

Re: Firing expected of Google employee who penned controversial memo on women

#14

Post by paulcole »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #6

There's an interesting article on the front page that firing this guy might be grounds for a lawsuit in and of itself. I don't think this guy should be fired. Google should make him an example of their willingness to listen, have thoughtful introspection, and consider all points of view. I truly hope this person is not fired. Free speech seems to only work when you're the majority.

>Free speech seems to only work when you're the majority.

Also helps when you're not at work.

Re: Firing expected of Google employee who penned controversial memo on women

#15

Post by tzm »

eelliott wrote: post #2

I've noticed some people on Twitter, including Susan Fowler and Kara Swisher, saying free speech is only a protection against government intrusion and doesn't apply in the corporate sector. That seems to be mirrored in this article. The only thing I'd say is that those people should think carefully. Denouncing and shrinking rights such as free speech and normalising their role as negative rights when it is convenient…

Free speech is not free of consequence.

Re: Firing expected of Google employee who penned controversial memo on women

#16

Post by c3534l »

eelliott wrote: post #2

I've noticed some people on Twitter, including Susan Fowler and Kara Swisher, saying free speech is only a protection against government intrusion and doesn't apply in the corporate sector. That seems to be mirrored in this article. The only thing I'd say is that those people should think carefully. Denouncing and shrinking rights such as free speech and normalising their role as negative rights when it is convenient…

Ironically the primary benefit of free speech was central to the article: you don't just need people who look different from each other, but think different from each other. It's sad to see that we're increasingly putting ourselves in information bubbles at the same time that our culture has decided that we should punish thoughtcrime.

But Google can't really tolerate people with controversial opinions because, ironically, the legal environment. If a person says the wrong thing, the courts will say it created a discriminatory environment. And now that even discussing controversial topics is off the table, I don't see how we can really expect things to improve. We'll just wind up with an increasingly divided society with each part living in their own alternate reality.

Re: Firing expected of Google employee who penned controversial memo on women

#17

Post by eelliott »

hellogoodbyeeee wrote: post #3
eelliott wrote: post #2

I've noticed some people on Twitter, including Susan Fowler and Kara Swisher, saying free speech is only a protection against government intrusion and doesn't apply in the corporate sector. That seems to be mirrored in this article. The only thing I'd say is that those people should think carefully. Denouncing and shrinking rights such as free speech and normalising their role as negative rights when it is convenient…

I think you missed the point. Nobody is shrinking or denouncing rights because right of free speech never protected against corporate sector sanctions. You are the one who is trying to expand free speech to protect you in places that no one intended.

That's arguable. Do you mean the right to free speech as found in the US Constitution doesn't extend to the corporate sector? That's true, SCOTUS agrees thus far.

Does some right to free speech not sourced in law, but perhaps morality or elsewhere, or even rooted in democracy, extend anywhere? I think that's well arguable.

Re: Firing expected of Google employee who penned controversial memo on women

#18

Post by PKop »

eelliott wrote: post #2

I've noticed some people on Twitter, including Susan Fowler and Kara Swisher, saying free speech is only a protection against government intrusion and doesn't apply in the corporate sector. That seems to be mirrored in this article. The only thing I'd say is that those people should think carefully. Denouncing and shrinking rights such as free speech and normalising their role as negative rights when it is convenient…

I think it's hilarious you would bring Trump into this example of Silicon Valley PC-group think run amok.

This type of collective mob mentality lashing out at "wrongthink" is why Trump won the election.

This is no more common than with people who hate Trump. This is par for the course with Social Justice Warriors who treat a person's well reasoned point of view citing data as unacceptable sexism that must be eradicated, so he gets fired.

And then you blame Trump. Boggles my mind..

Re: Firing expected of Google employee who penned controversial memo on women

#19

Post by Overtonwindow »

badlucklottery wrote: post #10
eelliott wrote: post #2

I've noticed some people on Twitter, including Susan Fowler and Kara Swisher, saying free speech is only a protection against government intrusion and doesn't apply in the corporate sector. That seems to be mirrored in this article. The only thing I'd say is that those people should think carefully. Denouncing and shrinking rights such as free speech and normalising their role as negative rights when it is convenient…

The issue is that consequence-free speech quickly bumps up against the paradox of tolerance. I think there can be a debate around where the cutoff line for what's acceptable is but no line at all most likely won't work.

As a general matter, the fact that society may find speech offensive is not a sufficient reason for suppressing it.

Re: Firing expected of Google employee who penned controversial memo on women

#20

Post by eelliott »

PKop wrote: post #18
eelliott wrote: post #2

I've noticed some people on Twitter, including Susan Fowler and Kara Swisher, saying free speech is only a protection against government intrusion and doesn't apply in the corporate sector. That seems to be mirrored in this article. The only thing I'd say is that those people should think carefully. Denouncing and shrinking rights such as free speech and normalising their role as negative rights when it is convenient…

I think it's hilarious you would bring Trump into this example of Silicon Valley PC-group think run amok. This type of collective mob mentality lashing out at "wrongthink" is why Trump won the election. This is no more common than with people who hate Trump. This is par for the course with Social Justice Warriors who treat a person's well reasoned point of view citing data as unacceptable sexism that must be eradicat…

I think you don't understand my comment. I am saying that the people doing what you describe have similarities with Trump.
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