Airbnb dominated by professional landlords • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#351

Post by wpietri » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 12:49 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #324

wpietri wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are others, though. For example, there are a couple of basic asymmetries that advantage landlords. One is that they generally have multiple units, whereas renters generally have only one. So the end of a lease is a bigger deal to the renter than the landlord. Another is that the costs (in time and money) of a tenant move are much higher for the renter than the landlord. This means that a greedy landlord can jac…

> jack the rent well above market price if the renter is able to accept the "jacked up" price, then by definition that's the market price (for that property). The renter needs to move if they don't like the price. The landlord also don't like vacant properties, and is perhaps eager to not "jack up" the price if they find that the tenant moves as soon as they do!

It is not the market price, because the only person who will pay it is the one who's eager to avoid moving. Everybody else will pay a lower price, because they have already committed to moving.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#352

Post by wpietri » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 12:53 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #323

wpietri wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is very much a rich person's answer. It's certainly "more efficient" for the wealthy if they can drive poorer people from their homes when the rich find it convenient. But that's not what it feels like if you're on the other end of it.

if the demand for property in an area grows, the poor is going to get priced out no matter what. Whether it's airbnb doing it, or some other factor (like tech investment money or something to such an effect). The problem to solve isn't to stop airbnb from working, but to increase the opportunity for the poor to get out of poverty. Otherwise, the next airbnb-like disruption will cause the exact same problem for the po…

There's no reason we can't do both.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#353

Post by inimino » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 5:11 AM UTC

IanDrake wrote: post #336

inimino wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... just another example of how the AirBnB system offloads risk onto the unsuspecting, then?

Seriously? On one hand everyone is pissed that people are buying properties just to rent on airbnb (and home away, flipkey, vbro, etc...) and on the other hand we need to protect these same people from themselves? You can't protect the predator and its prey. If you want fewer people buying up properties for short term rentals you should want the weaker ones to have bad experiences and tell all their friends.

It's entirely possible to point out that both sides of the market may be harmed when "disrupting" a regulated industry. AirBnB takes a cut of the savings, but the risks are borne by the market participants, whether that means having your property trashed by bad guests, or your trip ruined by bad hosts. The "predator" in your analogy would be AirBnB itself.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#354

Post by closeparen » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 5:25 AM UTC

schrodinger wrote: post #329

Camillo wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you get a noisy neighbor who isn't an AirBnB guest, but lives there permanently? That seems worse. Do you have no recourse in that case?

Why wouldn't you have recourse in that case?

Because it's not illegal to make noise in your apartment? Noise ordinances typically have a high threshold and are a pain to get enforced, except maybe in really obvious cases like college-style parties.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#355

Post by schrodinger » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 8:38 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #354

schrodinger wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't you have recourse in that case?

Because it's not illegal to make noise in your apartment? Noise ordinances typically have a high threshold and are a pain to get enforced, except maybe in really obvious cases like college-style parties.

Maybe you don't have a ton of legal recourse, but since they are a semi permanent neighbor you can just talk to them. Add opposed to someone that's just there for the weekend.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#356

Post by raybb » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 3:27 PM UTC

BMorearty wrote: post #233

BMorearty wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I'm working on finding the right team to send this request to.

P.S. I found the right team and started a conversation 45 minutes ago. But as it's Sunday, I don't expect to see a response soon.

Ever hear back about the conversation?

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#357

Post by BMorearty » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 5:26 PM UTC

raybb wrote: post #356

BMorearty wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P.S. I found the right team and started a conversation 45 minutes ago. But as it's Sunday, I don't expect to see a response soon.

Ever hear back about the conversation?

Yeah. I can't say anything too specific but the good news is the team agrees this would be one of the more useful filters that we could provide to guests. They took it really seriously and listened when I brought it up and linked to this discussion. Sorry for the lack of specificity. Also, please keep asking Airbnb for this filter until it happens.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#358

Post by 1812Overture » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #289

amarkov wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you own seven apartments with an average rent of $1k, your yearly revenue (not profit!) is $84,000. That's microscopic by any reasonable standard of company size.

Vacation rentals earn a multiple of long-term rental rates. AirBnB average in NYC is reported to be ~5500/month, so 462k/year for seven properties.

Probably paying $3k in rent for each of those apartments, $300 in utilities and cable, $800 in cleaning/laundry/expendables, plus probably budgeting $100/month to cover the faster than average wear and tear. So $109k/year in profits pre-tax. You could live on it, but you wouldn't exactly be rich.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#359

Post by 1812Overture » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 6:15 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #206

amarkov wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you own seven apartments with an average rent of $1k, your yearly revenue (not profit!) is $84,000. That's microscopic by any reasonable standard of company size.

Depends where you are located and what kind of apartments it is. The average rent in whatever is somewhere around 50% of the income, so if you own 3, you don't need to work.

Rent in an area is generally considered excessive when it's more than a third of the average income. And it also has to cover taxes, maintenance, etc. This is assuming you own them free and clear with no mortgage. If you finance buying a small rental property you're usually losing money each month for a few years until rents go up enough to cover your costs.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#360

Post by brianwawok » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 9:58 PM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #197

brianwawok wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. Or maybe we just dont want to share a wall with a hotel. I know i dont.

You wouldn't have to if zoning laws allowed people to build taller buildings. Airbnb is a hack that exists because the current market is completely unsustainable.

So Chicago has WAY easier zoning laws compared to SF. Still has zoning laws, but they are in a totally different / less crazy league.

Still, my condo has a no AirB&B clause. I would not have bought it if it allowed neighbors in the building to AirB&B.

Not 100% that clause is still enforceable, but I sold it a few years ago. I would sell ASAP though if I caught wind a neighbor was going to rent their unit. A quiet home is worth a lot to me.