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Let Forest Fires Burn

nytimes.com

21–30 of 112 posts

Re: Let Forest Fires Burn

#21
Speaking as a Montanan here.

The policy of "let some fires burn" has been in practice for a few decades now in our corner of the woods. Ever since the Yellowstone fire in the 80's, we've focused our efforts on containment instead of extinguishment (i.e. make a best effort to keep it away from human settlements); letting land lost to the fires just burn out naturally while stopping them from claiming too much land. Should we let them burn more? Perhaps.

But it's never so easy. The cost of just letting some go when they're a couple dozen or even hundred acres can spiral out of control when you're suddenly attempting to stop a 300,000 acre fire that has already burned out 16 homes and is threatening towns. Yes, firefighters die fighting fires. Civilians also die when an uncontained fire goes from a theoretical threat on the horizon to consuming their house in a matter of minutes.

Fire doesn't respect property boundaries, and can travel a tremendous speeds (upwards of 10mph). And they aren't really like floods - it's not just the forests that burn, it's the flat lands with all the nice dead grasses. Grass fires can move even faster than forest fires, given a wind to push it along.

Humans aren't the only ones affected, either. The livestock which used that land for feed still has to be fed, or face starvation. Argue all you want about the inhumanity of our treatment of livestock generally; letting them starve due to a lack of hay (tied to a lack of money) is worse.

There are some who feel that they should not have to support those affected by natural disasters. I'm sure others will be happy to return the favor.

(300,000 acres ~= 142,000 ha)

https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/5399/

Re: Let Forest Fires Burn

#23
In Australia we do a lot of controlled burning through the winter. They're called "hazard reduction burns" and are carefully planned operations involving lots of firefighters and appliances.

The aim is to burn the leaf litter and other fuels, but not let the fire get hot enough to kill established trees.

You start to see signs of regrowth very quickly. HRs are usually done in the late winter. By mid spring the landscape is an incredible sight of bright green new growth out of black tree trunks.

There are a lot of species of trees and plants native to the Australian bush that need fire as part of their breeding and growth cycles. It's integral to land management here.

Re: Let Forest Fires Burn

#24
I am under the impression that fire departments regularly practice "controlled burns" to destroy brush and have fires occur "naturally", during damp times and away from properties.

At least I am under this impression from controlled burns happening in Talladega National Forest and Cohutta wilderness.

Re: Let Forest Fires Burn

#25

I am under the impression that fire departments regularly practice "controlled burns" to destroy brush and have fires occur "naturally", during damp times and away from properties. At least I am under this impression from controlled burns happening in Talladega National Forest and Cohutta wilderness.

They used to do a lot more of them. Unfortunately, with cuts to that part of their budget, controlled burns in the Pacific North-West are a thing of the past.

Instead of spending money and time on controlled burns, we now spend money and time on fighting uncontrollable firestorms.

Re: Let Forest Fires Burn

#26

The problem with this is local politics. "Let wildfires burn" sounds great when it's not your multimillion dollar vacation home going up in smoke. Yes, in the long run it would be better for everyone involved. But we humans are anything but longsighted when it comes to dollars and cents.

> "Let wildfires burn" sounds great when it's not your multimillion dollar vacation home going up in smoke.

The solution for this would be creating "clearance" area around said homes (or surrounding a town). 200m forest-free zone, additionally supported by a sprinkler system fed e.g. from a swimming pool or a huge buried water tank (fed by rainwater).

In addition, separate forest areas by cleared lines so that a fire cannot grow so huge that it cannot be contained in real emergency cases, and also that wildlife, trapped wanderers etc. can flee to safety.

The only thing this does not account for is cellphone / other RF antenna towers and power transmission lines.

Re: Let Forest Fires Burn

#27
post #16
post #10

Letting fires burn is standard policy at this point. We learned it the hard way, particularly after the Big Burn, or the Great Fire of 1910. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_1910 It is uncontroversial to let isolated fires burn, but fires close to houses must be contained and fires close to towns must be contained.

I'd say later than 1910, see the 1988 Yellowstone fires: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_fires_of_1988 "Before the late 1960s, fires were generally believed to be detrimental for parks and forests, and management policies were aimed at suppressing fires as quickly as possible. However, as the beneficial ecological role of fire became better understood in the decades before 1988, a policy was adopted of allo…

> some even said it was "ruined", though this has to be hyperbolic, as Yellowstone is one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen

I visited Yellowstone before, during, and after those fires. The view was ruined from one point of view - a lot of variety in tree size and age was lost in those fires, to be replaced with uniform coverage.

A large party of the beauty of Yellowstone can be attributed to its wildness - how untouched by human hands it is. Yellowstone's forests post fire... felt tamed. No matter how much of an illusion it is, that wildness is something we all feel and seek while in Yellowstone.

This has gotten better over the decades since, with trees no longer being as uniform in size and coverage, but it's still possible to make out the scars of those fires, if you know where to look.

Re: Let Forest Fires Burn

#28
The missing step is often that we continue to let communities pop up in these areas that we fully expect to periodically burn down.

Of course, we often still let people build their houses in flood planes, but we seem to be slowly getting better at that.

Re: Let Forest Fires Burn

#29

In Australia we do a lot of controlled burning through the winter. They're called "hazard reduction burns" and are carefully planned operations involving lots of firefighters and appliances. The aim is to burn the leaf litter and other fuels, but not let the fire get hot enough to kill established trees. You start to see signs of regrowth very quickly. HRs are usually done in the late winter. By mid spring the landsc…

The US does a lot of controlled burning as well.

Re: Let Forest Fires Burn

#30

In a book about the smoke jumpers from several years ago, one of the members made a profound statement, jokingly, probably, but maybe not. He said that instead of battling wildfires the way we do now, we just throw money on the fire and wait until the rains come. With the continued droughts throughout the west and up into Alaska and Canada along with the effects of global warming, the forest lands are just dry tinder…

One more thing that's really hurt has been beetle kill. There are stands of trees killed by beetles which have been waiting for the right spark. They've been working for years to clear out these tinderboxes, but it's hard work (especially since those efforts have to fight against the anti-logging camps).

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/pine-beetles/rosne...

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