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Why Parents Hate Parenting

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Re: Why Parents Hate Parenting

#51

Post by zephyrfalcon »

bitwize wrote: post #15

A time out in his crib? No wonder she hates parenting. If I threw shit at my parents it would have gotten me the mother of all whoopings.

Same here, and I'm sorry that some of the commenters immediately play the "child abuse" card. Teaching your kid that there are boundaries is a good thing, or you will end up with, well, the current generation of teenagers and college-aged kids in the US, who have a whole arsenal of excuses why there aren't doing what they should be doing, a sense of entitlement the size of Montana, and zero sense of responsibility.

Beating their ass when they deserve it should be a last resort -- a clear signal that they have gone too far this time. And the fewer of those you have to hand out, the better. If your kid actually listens to reason all the time, great! But for most of them, sometimes this is necessary, and assuming your kid has a normal response to stimuli, it should work a hell of a lot better than a "timeout" (how is that a punishment anyway?).

Re: Why Parents Hate Parenting

#52

Post by tjr »

ergo98 wrote: post #45

Have only been a HN reader for a short time (though I've been linked from here quite a few times), so please pardon my pollution of this story to ask a question: Does this belong on Hacker News? Is Hacker News turning into Reddit (minus the convenience of subreddits)? I visit both because HN was always just solid tech links and news, but several completely non-hacker stories (outside of the fact that we are humans, m…

Once in a long while? Yes, absolutely. I greatly enjoy and appreciate seeing parenting insight from other like-minded people on this site, and find the discussion very interesting. I didn't read the article itself, but I often don't, as the discussions here are often more interesting than the articles linked to.

I wouldn't want to see this every day / week / month, but I'm happy to have seen it this time.

Re: Why Parents Hate Parenting

#53

Post by ergo98 »

rikthevik wrote: post #50
ergo98 wrote: post #45

Have only been a HN reader for a short time (though I've been linked from here quite a few times), so please pardon my pollution of this story to ask a question: Does this belong on Hacker News? Is Hacker News turning into Reddit (minus the convenience of subreddits)? I visit both because HN was always just solid tech links and news, but several completely non-hacker stories (outside of the fact that we are humans, m…

I think for young professionals trying to figure out a balance between work, entrepreneurship, career, children and relationships, this article is extremely valuable. There's a lot of big decisions being made in a hacker's life.

>I think for young professionals

HN has always only intended to fulfill one aspect of a Hacker's life. It never purported to offer cooking advice, car buying information, or lifestyle tips. It was about NoSQL versus SQL, language trends, Lisp, functional programming, and on and on. If it generalizes it becomes reddit, and soon a "Real Hacker News" will take over on the tech side while this place features pictures of cats and fictitious Facebook exchanges.

But yes, maybe "Young Working White Collar Adult" would be a good site.

Re: Why Parents Hate Parenting

#54

Post by tjr »

ergo98 wrote: post #53
rikthevik wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for young professionals trying to figure out a balance between work, entrepreneurship, career, children and relationships, this article is extremely valuable. There's a lot of big decisions being made in a hacker's life.

>I think for young professionals HN has always only intended to fulfill one aspect of a Hacker's life. It never purported to offer cooking advice, car buying information, or lifestyle tips. It was about NoSQL versus SQL, language trends, Lisp, functional programming, and on and on. If it generalizes it becomes reddit, and soon a "Real Hacker News" will take over on the tech side while this place features pictures of…

We had a cooking advice thread a year or two ago; I enjoyed that one as well. Don't want to see it here every day.

Re: Why Parents Hate Parenting

#55

Post by hugh3 »

Robin_Message wrote: post #13
ja30278 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is contradicted elsewhere in the article by the observation that families who could afford more childcare were _not_ necessarily happier.

But things like paternity leave, maternity leave, requiring employers to consider flexible working -- these kind of things Europe is doing are far more family friendly than the republican party. The family values line of "mothers should stay at home" espoused by Pat Robertson et al. probably is better than both parents working, however much childcare you can afford. No reason it has to be the mother though. And the a…

But things like paternity leave, maternity leave, requiring employers to consider flexible working -- these kind of things Europe is doing are far more family friendly than the republican party.

Everything has consequences elsewhere. Make paid maternity/paternity leave compulsory and you make it riskier for employers to hire. So you increase the probability that your father gets three months off after you're born, but you also increase the probability that your father is a long-term unemployed bozo living in a housing project on the outskirts of Paris.

The family values line of "mothers should stay at home" espoused by Pat Robertson et al. probably is better than both parents working, however much childcare you can afford.

I agree.

No reason it has to be the mother though.

It doesn't have to be, but this seems to be the natural way things go if left to their own devices. Most human societies have the other taking on the vast majority of childcare duties -- it seems to be part of the way our minds are put together that mothers want to do a lot more childcare than fathers do.

Re: Why Parents Hate Parenting

#56

Post by dasil003 »

bobbin wrote: post #36
dasil003 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would never spank my own children, but that's a parenting choice. This societal moralizing about every single aspect of how one should raise their children is a big part of the problem described in the article. For the record, spanking is not necessarily abuse. For you to cite unequivocably that it is is pure unthinking political correctness. Parenting is complicated, psychology is complicated. Is everyone who was…

> This societal moralizing about every single aspect of how one should raise their children is a big part of the problem described in the article. Well, you are trying to add unearned emphasis with "every single aspect". It's not about "every single aspect", although it is moralizing about compulsion and pain. > For the record, spanking is not necessarily abuse. depends of the definition. > For you to cite unequivoca…

Well, you are trying to add unearned emphasis with

No, it's fully earned. I am a parent. I have witnessed first hand the moralizing, judgement and mutually contradictory universal expectations that random people have about how childrearing should be done.

You don't know how much though I have put into the subject and calling it political correctness is incorrect...

Fair enough, you may have put substantial thought into how parenting should work from a theoretical perspective.

...unless careing about whether or not people use pain and fear to shape children is just political correctness

Reframing the debate in terms so negative that anyone would appear insane to disagree with them is classic political correctness.

I don't know if "irretrievably", but I think almost everyone is psychologically damaged in some way or another.

Which raises the question, is your duty as a parent to prevent any and all psychological damage to your child?

If the goal is to minimize suffering, then is it better to indulge your child and raise an entitled spoiled individual that will never be satisfied for the rest of their life. Or is it better to "use fear" (the fear of consequences, whatever they may be) to raise a child that has some notion of negative cause and effect?

Re: Why Parents Hate Parenting

#57

Post by ergo98 »

tjr wrote: post #52
ergo98 wrote: post #45

Have only been a HN reader for a short time (though I've been linked from here quite a few times), so please pardon my pollution of this story to ask a question: Does this belong on Hacker News? Is Hacker News turning into Reddit (minus the convenience of subreddits)? I visit both because HN was always just solid tech links and news, but several completely non-hacker stories (outside of the fact that we are humans, m…

Once in a long while? Yes, absolutely. I greatly enjoy and appreciate seeing parenting insight from other like-minded people on this site, and find the discussion very interesting. I didn't read the article itself, but I often don't, as the discussions here are often more interesting than the articles linked to. I wouldn't want to see this every day / week / month, but I'm happy to have seen it this time.

Right now at least 10% of the front page are Reddit/Digg-style stories. As interesting as Caucasian ninjas and 4-time lottery winners are, I don't think it helps the cause.

HN hurtles towards becoming Reddit.

Re: Why Parents Hate Parenting

#58

Post by hugh3 »

S_A_P wrote: post #12

Is this more of a reflection of how much more selfish we generally are compared with previous generations, or evidence that raising children really is hard?

Why should it be about selfishness? It could be about different things, like changing fashions for disciplining children.

I get the impression that children were much better-behaved in the old days, when they knew acting up would get them belted.

Re: Why Parents Hate Parenting

#59

Post by Splines »

jasonlotito wrote: post #16
pragmatic wrote: post #4

Like everything in life, the thought of doing it, trumps the actual doing it. Finishing the basement, writing a novel, building the next great web app, raising kids all seem like great projects to embark on. But it's the dark night of the soul, when you're up for the 10 night in a row (or you have writer's block or you realize you shouldn't have cut that pipe, etc, etc). Life isn't all rainbows and unicorns. Speaking…

Very true. My wife and I are lucky, in a way. She's Italian. Like, born Italian, speaks Italian, lives Italian. Okay, she lives in Montreal, but damnit, call her a Frenchy and she'll punch me hard enough in that spot on the arm that she knows will get a reaction. Anyways, we live next door to her great-grandmother (nona), and below her Mother and Father. I swear, her sisters are over often enough that it's normal. He…

I envy you. I have a cousin living the same city 45 minutes away, and my parents live in another country that is a 3 hour drive away.

We moved here because of my job, which I love, but while raising our two children, I sorely miss the support structure that an expanded family provides. I also grew up in a similar situation, little to no family living in the same city, but my parents had many, many friends in the neighbourhood within walking distance. They might as well have been family.

Now, where I am now, I find it hard to relate to my neighbours (maybe it's me, maybe it's them, I don't know). I don't think I'll ever be able to integrate into the community like my parents did, and we don't have family nearby that we can rely upon on a moments notice.

Would I trade my current job for somewhere closer to family? That's a difficulty choice to make for me, as there's too many unknowns. I wish it were an easy one.

Re: Why Parents Hate Parenting

#60

Post by hugh3 »

zephyrfalcon wrote: post #51
bitwize wrote: post #15

A time out in his crib? No wonder she hates parenting. If I threw shit at my parents it would have gotten me the mother of all whoopings.

Same here, and I'm sorry that some of the commenters immediately play the "child abuse" card. Teaching your kid that there are boundaries is a good thing, or you will end up with, well, the current generation of teenagers and college-aged kids in the US, who have a whole arsenal of excuses why there aren't doing what they should be doing, a sense of entitlement the size of Montana, and zero sense of responsibility. B…

A "timeout" (or as my mother would call it "GO TO YOUR ROOM RIGHT NOW!") works as punishment for mysterious reasons. You'd think that the kid would be happy alone in his room with all those toys, but seeing an angry parent and then being left alone to think for a while seems to be reasonably painful.

I don't think the name "timeout" is good, though. It makes it sound too much like part of a game.

I agree, though, that the "timeout" shouldn't be the worst threat in a parent's disciplinary arsenal. Spankings should be given out rarely and threatened far more often.

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