How the NSA tracks people [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: How the NSA tracks people [video]

#41

Post by FlashGit » Mon, Aug 07, 2017, 5:07 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #40

FlashGit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't watch the whole thing just jumped around but he has included slides that are marked 'SECRET//NOFORN' so if that material is accurately classified at that level (and its disclosure was not authorized), well he probably shouldn't be presenting to that. Of course whether those slides would cause 'serious damage' to national security is a whole other matter or maybe it was 'authorized'.

Perhaps they were previously leaked through Snowden or others and he's only included them in his slides? Then he's not disclosing anything. He hasn't worked at NSA for a loooong time.

I'm no expert, and you are right he did leave sometime ago, perhaps there were changes with regards to protecting classified information after he left.

Classified information does not become unclassified just because it is publicly available if I remember correctly. Either way, I can't comment on whether including them in his slides is disclosing/divulging or not.

Re: How the NSA tracks people [video]

#42

Post by dexterdog » Mon, Aug 07, 2017, 5:20 PM UTC

65827 wrote: post #20

verytrivial wrote: post #2

(That sense of mild threat you feel right now that is preventing you from either watching the video or commenting here is entirely natural and nothing to worry about. Go about your day as normal.)

The goal isn't even to watch everyone, even if you devoted 100% of all federal spending to watching everyone you wouldn't be able to do it. Not enough resources or time. The goal is to chill conversation and thought that is too critical of institutions. Mission accomplished.

The way the government is growing it will be big enough eventually. Remember, they only have to watch those that don't work for the government.

Re: How the NSA tracks people [video]

#43

Post by JohnStrange » Mon, Aug 07, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

Simon_says wrote: post #3

How is Bill Binney still walking around a free man? Surely he had security clearances and made an oath not to break them. Is it just that he's riding a fine line and not disclosing classified information?

> Is it just that he's riding a fine line and not disclosing classified information

Yes, at least in this talk he's very careful only to disclose what can be inferred from already public information (e.g. Snowden leaks). People from his former line of work are kind of used to this, I guess, as they probably cannot even discuss every detail of what they're doing with all of their own colleagues during lunch breaks.

Re: How the NSA tracks people [video]

#44

Post by dexterdog » Mon, Aug 07, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

bagsam wrote: post #38

Apologies if this may sound a little naive, but I can't help but wonder; Can anything be done about this situation within the next couple of years? Or is this process of mass data collection just going to continue and reach an irreversible stage where those agencies' power is out of control?

Well if a "hoper and changer" won't do it...

Re: How the NSA tracks people [video]

#45

Post by QAPereo » Mon, Aug 07, 2017, 5:30 PM UTC

Chardok wrote: post #30

felon123 wrote: post #23

What I don't understand is with such capabilities, why weren't Michelle carters texts flagged? Or the heather Mack texts/fb messages. Or the texts revolving around the death of Tim piazza at penn state? If the capability to save these people was there, why wasn't it exercised?

He states it in the video: they are incredibly overwhelmed with data coming in and are just using "old search methods" such as word search that he deems ineffective. My understanding is that this bulk data gathering is not as much as preventing attacks but further securing of power for the strange amalgamation that we would call the federal government.

Even if they cared, they wouldn't risk burning a source/method over a couple of teenagers potentially harming themselves or each other. This apparatus isn't about helping police, it's about state control, ostensibly of things like immigration and terrorism, but realistically as you say it's pure power.

Re: How the NSA tracks people [video]

#46

Post by neves » Mon, Aug 07, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

Bartweiss wrote: post #27

verytrivial wrote: post #2

(That sense of mild threat you feel right now that is preventing you from either watching the video or commenting here is entirely natural and nothing to worry about. Go about your day as normal.)

I went to the comments instead of the link to take a look at whether there was a second source that didn't involve hitting a CCC page. Chilling effects indeed.

Sorry for the ignorance, but whats the problem with CCC pages?

Re: How the NSA tracks people [video]

#47

Post by zeep » Mon, Aug 07, 2017, 6:05 PM UTC

megous wrote: post #14

So a quick calculation. 1 zettabyte if stored on 4GB HDD, that's 250 million hard drives. That's without any redundancy. Quarterly production of hard drives is around 100-140 million. That's quite a big slice of global production. The buying operation of this scale should be visible somewhere on the price charts.

You mean if stored on 4TB HDD... but they could easily cut that 250 million in half by using 8TB drives.

Re: How the NSA tracks people [video]

#48

Post by trendia » Mon, Aug 07, 2017, 6:07 PM UTC

Spaztazim wrote: post #35

megous wrote: post #14

So a quick calculation. 1 zettabyte if stored on 4GB HDD, that's 250 million hard drives. That's without any redundancy. Quarterly production of hard drives is around 100-140 million. That's quite a big slice of global production. The buying operation of this scale should be visible somewhere on the price charts.

Read a rumor once that the tsunami in the Thailand that "knocked out" HDD factories several years was used as cover to buy up large amounts.

Did non-HDD factories in Thailand experience a similar price increase after the tsunamis? (I don't know the answer -- I'm just curious)

Re: How the NSA tracks people [video]

#49

Post by zeep » Mon, Aug 07, 2017, 6:08 PM UTC

FlashGit wrote: post #12

Simon_says wrote: post #3

How is Bill Binney still walking around a free man? Surely he had security clearances and made an oath not to break them. Is it just that he's riding a fine line and not disclosing classified information?

I didn't watch the whole thing just jumped around but he has included slides that are marked 'SECRET//NOFORN' so if that material is accurately classified at that level (and its disclosure was not authorized), well he probably shouldn't be presenting to that. Of course whether those slides would cause 'serious damage' to national security is a whole other matter or maybe it was 'authorized'.

Around 7:30 he says that he is using some documents that were leaked by Snowden.. maybe that's them.

Re: How the NSA tracks people [video]

#50

Post by trendia » Mon, Aug 07, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

bobsgame wrote: post #28

His main point as I understood it seems to be that the problem is the direction of the organization demands that it continue to grow in that direction. More data means more power which demands more funding but also leads to less effectiveness at what they are actually supposed to be doing. It's really smart that he is confronting the problem by trying to create a legal framework that can steer the ship in a better di…

As they say, any bureaucracy will eventually be controlled by people trying to preserve the bureaucracy rather than those trying to achieve the actual goals of the bureaucracy.

Or:

> Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people":

> First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the former Soviet Union collective farming administration.

> Secondly, there will be those dedicated to the organization itself. Examples are many of the administrators in the education system, many professors of education, many teachers union officials, much of the NASA headquarters staff, etc.

> The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization.