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Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

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Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#51

Post by dionidium »

seasonalgrit wrote: post #48
dionidium wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it's more like the link between secondhand smoke and cancer, which is to say widely believed and seriously overstated. This stuff was trending upward far before social media. See e.g. Putnam in Bowling Alone for a far more convincing explanation. Facebook is the snake oil you're being sold as the cure for something that was already on its way up.

You're misinformed when it comes to secondhand smoke. From the NIH: "The U.S. Surgeon General estimates that living with a smoker increases a nonsmoker’s chances of developing lung cancer by 20 to 30 percent." "There is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke." -- https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/t...

Not really the point of this thread. Analogies should elucidate, not distract. My bad.

Maybe we'll get a chance to argue it another time :)

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#52

Post by Zitrax »

dragonsky67 wrote: post #37
tapp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. I understand what you're saying, but I also think it's important to acknowledge that dynamics have changed - and we don't need to go back 30 years to see it. As recently as 5 or 6 years ago, I would quite often strike up conversations with strangers at the bus stop or on the train or at the post office. Usually these conversations wo…

I'm not sure that your observation of peoples behaviour is accurate. Just a bit of background. I'm an introvert, I'm happy in my own space. Too much noise or too many people make me very uncomfortable. Birthdays, for example would have to be up there as one of the worst events of the year only topped by Christmas Parties. So you see, I'm not one for talking to random strangers. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually a fair…

Cultures must really be different. I have used public transport to work for years and I can't even recall one single time someone tried to start a conversation.

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#53

Post by speeder »

vinceguidry wrote: post #3

Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, a…

I have to really disagree.

I don't have friends...

But it is not really a self-inflicted problem, I did tried to strike conversations with random strangers the most I could, be pleasant, whatnot.

But the places where I lived, it just didn't worked.

1. My neighbourhood has a race problem, most people there are mixed race but think themselves as black, I am mixed race too, but I look white. Trying to talk to neighbours didn't led to friendships, it led to people threatening to sic their pitbulls on me or showing to me their baseball bats and telling me to get my white ass out of their black neighbourhood.

2. For some time I lived in a Brazil's biggest city, where most people moved there to work, and are always in a hurry, there is always something to do, and they are always 'just passing', people frequently don't want to have friends, because they don't want to get attached to a place where they want to be only temporarily, and often people don't even strike random conversations, they are too busy, sometimes it wasn't even possible, like overcrowded and noisy public transport where you couldn't hear even yourself, much less someone else talking to you.

3. I went to some startup-related events, my company wasn't famous, and I didn't even had money to look fancy, for example I can't afford a nice watch. (an object I saw lots of successful startup owners wearing, despite today most people checking time on their phone...). Many people flat out refused to talk to me, they were dismissive in some ways, or moved away, or one guy I approached in a obviously expensive suit, that immediately said: "WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?" and when I tried to tell him my name, he immediately made a 'eeeew gross' face, like he was royalty talking to a dirty peasant, and physically pushed me (not strongly) away from him.

So I don't think it is self-inflicted no...

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#54

Post by mncharity »

tapp wrote: post #19
vinceguidry wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else. No. It does not. It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. People still congregate in places where it's easy to meet them. They still do it today, they did it all throughout history. People don't want t…

> It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. I understand what you're saying, but I also think it's important to acknowledge that dynamics have changed - and we don't need to go back 30 years to see it. As recently as 5 or 6 years ago, I would quite often strike up conversations with strangers at the bus stop or on the train or at the post office. Usually these conversations wo…

> Now, the awkward silence never occurs in the first place. It's been entirely replaced by everyone scrolling the feeds on their phones.

It will be interesting to see which ways AR/VR goes.

() You're walking somewhere, displaying a side banner of things you're enthused about. So there always fodder for striking up conversation when standing around. And look, the gal unlocking the eyeglass shop is an Atlantic winter solo sailor. Perhaps a "good person to have a conversation with" rating system might help cope with those that aren't.

() Standing at the bus stop, you don't see the stop. You don't see the people waiting, and they don't see you. Especially the homeless guy. You see a "tree", placed so you don't run into the pole. A log for the guy, so you don't walk into him. You see bushes, or boxes, or bears. But no people. The bus pulls up to a stream in a glade in the woods.

() Bus? Are you going on vacation? Wouldn't your vacation be a nicer at home, and around your block, in VR? Like work. And play. And getting together with friends?

() No more two-body problem. What's a "long distance relationship"? Oooo, that sounds like what you were telling me about yesterday, how when you were meeting someone in olden times, you had to arrange exactly when and where you would meet, because without real phones, otherwise you might fail to find each other. Wieerrrrd.

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#55

Post by zachsnow »

chank wrote: post #20
vinceguidry wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else. No. It does not. It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. People still congregate in places where it's easy to meet them. They still do it today, they did it all throughout history. People don't want t…

What you and I consider an authentic connection seem to very different. It's not strictly a numbers game. And I beg differ that it was absolutely easier even just 20 years to meet people and have more meaningful connections. The age of connectivity through artificial means has distanced everyone from society as a whole. People don't put any effort into their relationships anymore and that is the source of the problem…

While I absolutely agree re: distance, I think that another reason "20 years ago" resonates is that many of use were younger 20 years ago. And it sure was easier to make friends as a kid.

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#56

Post by br_smartass »

vinceguidry wrote: post #3

Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, a…

Funny how this is completely flipped over. The opposite of what you said is true. Or maybe this is just because you're talking about your life in specific, with your specific circunstances, as if the same could apply to everyone. Anyone who has been into very different places, with different people living in different ways, can see very clearly that our society is sick as fuck, this is big-city-people problem, and your suggestion is big-city-people thinking and big-city-people problem solving. I don't mean to be rude, but thats how I see it.

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#57

Post by losteric »

InternetUser wrote: post #38
tapp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. I understand what you're saying, but I also think it's important to acknowledge that dynamics have changed - and we don't need to go back 30 years to see it. As recently as 5 or 6 years ago, I would quite often strike up conversations with strangers at the bus stop or on the train or at the post office. Usually these conversations wo…

> Now, the awkward silence never occurs in the first place. It's been entirely replaced by everyone scrolling the feeds on their phones. To start a conversation, you have to proactively interrupt what the person is doing and ask for their attention. That is exactly right. No one can be bothered to exert the effort to carry on a relationship--not when their handheld Internet has an ocean of stuff that's easily more en…

Idleness is dead. We're constantly picking up novel stimuli and concepts, getting triggered by emotional politics/entertainment, and following infinite trends... as soon as our minds are idle, we immediately jump back to the things we've been absorbing, or feel that obsessive itch to scan for new stimuli.

What happened to being bored? To doing things, not because they were "cool" or even "fun", but simply because there was time that had to be killed? Going out because there was nothing inside, and meeting other bored people, connecting on anything because it was better than nothing?

Technology is raising the "minimum acceptable interest level" for activities - killing our mental slack, the slack where offline novelty could slip in.

I've been thinking about it for a while, but this thread has made my decision. Next time I'm off-call, 3pm tomorrow, I'm going to cut the cord. Unplug the modem and tell my friends I'm only answering phone calls (disable data) - no internet outside of work.

I want to feel bored again. Not brief moments of boredom, the hours of boredom I felt as a kid, the boredom that drove me to do new things... instead of today's boredom, that merely leads me to learn new things.

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#58

Post by lighttower »

ar-nelson wrote: post #47
sjg007 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society says you need to pay money to not be lonely. It also says that anyone that wants to have a conversation with you in a coffee shop is crazy.

How, exactly, can you pay money to not be lonely? If it were that simple, this would be much less of a problem.

What the OP is saying is that marketing makes the impression that "IF I HAD {X} THEN I'D BE {NOT LONELY, HAPPY, LIKED, BEAUTIFUL, ETC}" where {x }is the set of items that you're actively feeling marketing pressure to buy.

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#59

Post by lighttower »

vinceguidry wrote: post #3

Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, a…

Brave statement. Can you talk about what you mean by STATUS? If I project my own early 20s beliefs into OP's description, it means that I pictured myself being much wealthier than I am now, maybe arriving to work in helicopter, super successful, beautiful people dying to talk to me, and all those horrible people from highschool eating their hearts out. In my 30s I see all this is nonsense and wouldn't make me any happier. But that's not the focus of the question. OP what do you mean by STATUS?

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#60

Post by chillacy »

speeder wrote: post #53
vinceguidry wrote: post #3

Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, a…

I have to really disagree. I don't have friends... But it is not really a self-inflicted problem, I did tried to strike conversations with random strangers the most I could, be pleasant, whatnot. But the places where I lived, it just didn't worked. 1. My neighbourhood has a race problem, most people there are mixed race but think themselves as black, I am mixed race too, but I look white. Trying to talk to neighbours…

Practically speaking, the probability that 6 billion other people are all at fault and you have 0% of the blame is pretty small. Without knowing you it's hard to say what you're doing wrong, but as the parent hinted, professional help is available. It could just be that you're doing something to weird people away, or it could be deeper seated issues with how you perceive the world.
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