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Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

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Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#21

Post by fweespeech »

vinceguidry wrote: post #6
chank wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just like saying the problem isn't me, it's you. Society plays a huge role in people feeling lonely. I'm not saying it's the job of society to make someone feel accepted and have authentic connections, but the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else.

> the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else. No. It does not. It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. People still congregate in places where it's easy to meet them. They still do it today, they did it all throughout history. People don't want t…

> If you're lonely, ask yourself why you refuse to go out and meet people and make connections. Even if it's just at the grocery store. Even if it's just with the homeless guy down the road. Keep digging and eventually you'll find a root cause.

Your posts come off as an extrovert who doesn't understand why introverts find socializing with random strangers a draining and unpleasant process.

> There's also the problem that, even if the infrastructure were there, that doesn't mean people will take advantage of it. Loneliness is tied very closely to the pride part of the brain, nobody wants to admit they have a problem and seek out help for it.

For some people, maybe.

I don't care about random strangers, pride, and a number of other things people (like you) expect me to. People seem to think I'm lying or confused when I say this. My accomplishments in life (outside of work) have been as anonymous as anyone could make them.

I've still had times I felt lonely but it has more to do with the fact I realized a group of people I thought were trustworthy were not. As a result, its transient until I'm done pulling the knives out of back and addressing the wounds.

As such, a large number of interactions with strangers isn't useful to me. I wouldn't trust them because most people are too selfish to be trustworthy. And trust is necessary to deal with loneliness and form connections.

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#22

Post by bogomipz »

vinceguidry wrote: post #3

Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, a…

>"Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one."

Its fascinating that you you have chosen to state this as fact without any supporting data.

>"Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem."

Again based on what, just because you say so?

There's an excellent book called "Bowling Alone" that came out in 2000 long before social media. The book traces a phenomenon of declining "social capital" that began in post war boom. Social media and the large scale replacing of real interaction with those conducted by phone has only exacerbated this. There plenty of real data in the book and the author conducted half a million interviews over 25 years.

See:

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/p/putnam-alone.html

>Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts.

There is big difference between being alone and "feeling alone." Going to Wall Mart or coffee shops solves the problem of the former. This "being alone" however is generally not the one psychologists are referring to when they talk about the modern phenomenon of "chronic loneliness."

Of hose 50 people on the street you refer to, how many of those people have ear buds in and are/or are staring at, typing on or talking on phone as they walk? How many are cognizant of those around them? Most of them wouldn't hear you even if you did try talk to them.

Spend just 5 minutes walking anywhere Manhattan and it is quite apparent. Walk into a bar and most everyone waiting for their friend is staring at or typing into their smart phone. Their maybe 50 people around on the street but most of them are in their own private bubble.

The Atlantic recently had an interview with John Cacioppo who is something of an expert on the subject. He sites both cultural and environmental reasons for an uptick in loneliness. See:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/how-lonel...

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#23

Post by icantdrive55 »

goshx wrote: post #16
vinceguidry wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else. No. It does not. It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. People still congregate in places where it's easy to meet them. They still do it today, they did it all throughout history. People don't want t…

> Even if it’s just at the grocery store. Even if it’s just with the homeless guy down the road. I think you are missing the point. Loneliness is not solved by simply being around people. I’ve been living in the US for 5 years now and the amount of people I can call friends here is very small, despite all the attempts at grocery stores, bars, meetups and even homeless folks. Society doesn’t seem to be open to take in…

I've lived in the Bay Area most of my life. I have had a hard time finding true friends.

I know it's partially my fault. I also believe it's the environment.

I live in a wealth area. I'm not wealthy, by any means.

People seem to have everything here, except friends. If they are lucky, they have a wife, or a husband they can tolerate.

I think because the cost of living is so great, people have their defenses up. Kinda like, "What do you want from me?"

My best friend died a few years ago. He was a master at friendship. He was also manic, but he knew the secret to friendship.

He would just call people. I met him at work, and within a few weeks he would call me daily. At first, I tried to end the conversations quick, but finally gave up.

We were best friends for years. We went into businesses together. I could trust him with my life.

I don't have it in me to be so persistent though.

I did try to keep friends with my exes, but there was always that day, where they I could tell they wanted more, or nothing.

When I was younger, I really thought men and women could be friends, but I don't think it works in the long run, especially after an intimate relationship.

If I had a do over, I would have listened to, "We don't want to ruin what we have right now?".

I can add this. Money can't buy good friends. It might be the only huge downside to making it financially.

My neighbors are very lonely. Marin County might be the loneliest place on earth. (Yes--I outed my county. Too many people move expecting their lives to be great. And to those that have a different perspective--share it. I'm at a loss.)

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#24

Post by sjg007 »

chank wrote: post #5
vinceguidry wrote: post #3

Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, a…

That's just like saying the problem isn't me, it's you. Society plays a huge role in people feeling lonely. I'm not saying it's the job of society to make someone feel accepted and have authentic connections, but the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else.

Society says you need to pay money to not be lonely. It also says that anyone that wants to have a conversation with you in a coffee shop is crazy.

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#25

Post by pavel_lishin »

vinceguidry wrote: post #3

Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, a…

> Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts.

> Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons.

I met two strangers today, in the sense of having a long-ish conversation with them. One of them was incredibly boring, to the point where I'd rather be on an island by myself than with that person. The other, maybe could become a friend, if we both put some effort into it.

Saying that there are 50 people living on the same block as you is like telling a hungry man that people threw away the remnants of 50 meals. Sure, you could dig through the garbage and eke out an existence, but it's not really a good solution to hunger.

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#26

Post by idle_processor »

pmoriarty wrote: post #9
vinceguidry wrote: post #3

Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, a…

It's one thing to hang out with friends at a coffee shop and beat yourself up over life not turning out the way you wanted it to. It's quite another thing not to have any friends. Most of the people in the coffee shops around here have their noses buried in their laptops or books, and when they talk to people they mostly talk to friends who they went to the coffee shop with. Very few people are actually meeting new p…

Mind linking to some of the compelling evidence against CBT?

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#28

Post by RoboTeddy »

vinceguidry wrote: post #3

Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, a…

There are all sorts of forces that could be leading to more widespread loneliness, e.g.:

* As material wealth increases, there's less need to share physical resources (bathrooms, courtyards, etc). These resources tended to bring the same people together frequently, which is a (the?) important precursor for developing a close social tie.

* Many bright ambitious women used to organize all sorts of social capital increasing endeavors; this was reduced when society reformed and excellent private-sector career paths became more available.

* People often move for college, and then again for work (perhaps more than once) -- this used to be more rare. Moves like these have big negative externalities, since they rip the shared social fabric.

These problems arise mainly from collective decisions and changes in culture and economics, and aren't self-inflicted by individuals.

It doesn't really make sense to say that a problem is self-inflicted when it applies to a large percentage of people-- almost by definition there's something else going on.

Re: Study: Loneliness, Social Isolation Greater Health Problem in US Than Obesity

#29

Post by pavel_lishin »

pmoriarty wrote: post #9
vinceguidry wrote: post #3

Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, a…

It's one thing to hang out with friends at a coffee shop and beat yourself up over life not turning out the way you wanted it to. It's quite another thing not to have any friends. Most of the people in the coffee shops around here have their noses buried in their laptops or books, and when they talk to people they mostly talk to friends who they went to the coffee shop with. Very few people are actually meeting new p…

> Bars are geared towards hanging out with people you already know, or hitting on strangers. I'm not sure how many people are making new friends there, unless they're relatively extroverted.

You make a good point about some level of extroversion being required, but one of the things I enjoy about bars - as an introvert - is the ability to have low-cost conversations with strangers. Sometimes I make friends; sometimes I just talk to someone without having to worry about forming a long-term relationship (friendship) with someone.

Sometimes it's nice just to talk to someone you don't have to meet again.

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