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“Rest and vest”: engineers who get paid and barely work

businessinsider.com

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Re: “Rest and vest”: engineers who get paid and barely work

#151

Post by whipoodle »

user5994461 wrote: post #148

> There are a lot 'coasters' who reached a certain level and don't want to work any harder. They just do a 9-5 job, won’t work to get promoted, don’t want to get promoted. Finally someone who understands how being an employee works. You are paid to be present ~ 40 hours a week, as stated in your contract. Working twice as hard and killing your week end has no point and you won't get promoted. Don't bother.

The gist of my last performance review was my manager saying "I don't really know what you do most of the time, but things rarely are broken and everything seems to be going okay." (That was a positive review.) That made me realize killing myself is pointless, it wouldn't even get noticed anyway. No one would care. A lot of these companies imagine themselves to be so much better-run than the reality.

Re: “Rest and vest”: engineers who get paid and barely work

#152

Post by user5994461 »

pixelmonkey wrote: post #112
sidlls wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But what is the exact mechanism that is making it so finance and tech are among the only fields where labor compensation is commensurate with leveraged value-add? What makes you think labor compensation in tech is commensurate with the leveraged value-add? I think you're generalizing too broadly. The vast majority of tech workers, even at the "Big Names", are not anywhere near a position where they can "rest and ve…

You are right that compensation is uneven in every industry. You are also right I am generalizing a bit too much. My main point, though, is more that in tech/finance it is very possible for compensation to be (largely) commensurate with leveraged value-add. Whereas in professions like teaching and firefighting, it is simply impossible.

You can teach and firefight anywhere on the planet.

You can only work for the GAFA in a couple of cities, that happen to be the most expensive in the world.

Re: “Rest and vest”: engineers who get paid and barely work

#153

Post by antod »

asah wrote: post #36

Can confirm. But it's not a nefarious thing and the people aren't slackers: 90% of the people who end up in this position are ass-kickers who strive to have impact and get bored: most feel bad about slacking but their bodies and minds simply need a rest. They created BILLIONS in value and even providing tech support, they "pay for themselves" many times over -- that's why companies like Google keep them around. Subtl…

And for a rich company, I suppose keeping them around stops their competitors from hiring them a while.

Re: “Rest and vest”: engineers who get paid and barely work

#154

Post by gorbachev »

mavhc wrote: post #64
zw123456 wrote: post #53

Yes, but the Wall Street CEO's are sooooo hard working. Give me a break. I once worked for a company whose CEO completely ran the thing into the ground and eventually got fired but got paid millions anyhow. I jokingly said I could have ruined the company for half what they paid that meathead. I think the real scandal is the ridiculous amounts of money CEO's get paid for doing nothing in a lot of cases. The money thes…

Someone once said that your boss isn't paid more because he's better/works harder, but because only 1 of the row below can be promoted to boss, so they have to make the pay amazing, so everyone below works really hard for the company to try and get promoted.

There was a study I read some time ago that essentially said the inflation of CEO salaries is because the boards who control the compensation of CEOs is just one big Old Boy Network. They all know each other, are wannabe or ex CEOs, so they end up "taking care" of each other.

I don't remember the exact details or whether the study was scientifically solid or just someone spitballing stuff, so who knows.

Personally I find the golden handshake deals completely reprehensible, and more or less a criminal misuse of shareholders' money, especially if the CEO leaves/gets fired because the company is going down the drain.

Re: “Rest and vest”: engineers who get paid and barely work

#155

Post by oh_sigh »

muzz wrote: post #80
johan_larson wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clarification: "Senior SWE", the formal rank, at Google is indeed a plausible terminal level. If you get there, they'll let you stay indefinitely. But it isn't particularly senior. If you start at Google straight out of college, it's two promotions up, and you may not have supervised anyone higher than an intern.

Yes, but: 1) promotions are not particularly easy. they are approved by committee, ie not because a manager happens to favor an employee 2) Senior SWE itself is an Individual Contributor role (some say the optimal level if one wants to remain an IC). Only at the next level is leadership required 3) There is a HUGE jump in compensation between Senior SWE and the next level (Staff). Senior SWEs are not pulling anywhere…

Even staff probably isn't 1m...maybe 800 total

Re: “Rest and vest”: engineers who get paid and barely work

#156

Post by OneMoreGoogler »

matwood wrote: post #138
IBM wrote: post #59

This is probably why Apple, a hardware company, has operating margins that are higher than Google and Microsoft (even though their gross margins are almost half of Google's and Microsoft's). The only person I can think of that might have this arrangement at Apple is Scott Forstall. I think that's why he's been radio silent until very recently (or he could just be very loyal to Apple). Maybe Katie Cotton when they cha…

I thought the people who were resting and vesting at Google were all making new messaging programs? They are up to 3 or 4 now?

Honestly it's the opposite. The way you get noticed and promoted at Google is by building something new, even if Google is already doing something else in that space. That's part of the reason there's so much duplication at Google.

The VIPs (Vest In Peacers) are more inclined to do the easier thing of adopting and building on what's already there, which is of course the better thing: virtue of laziness and so forth.

(source: xoogler)

Re: “Rest and vest”: engineers who get paid and barely work

#157

Post by gorbachev »

m-j-fox wrote: post #40
jokoon wrote: post #32

I wonder what kind of work they do that makes them so unique and indispensable. I also heard stories about engineers who did not share how their code worked, so that the company would not risk firing them.

I've wondered this about CEOs. For the price of one Jamie Diamond you could hire the entire graduating class of Harvard Business School. Surely, between them, they could perform his duties, no?

They'd probably be less apt at directing the company to commit crimes, but I digress.

A large part of a CEO's job at such a big company is maintaining relationships especially with various regulatory agencies. There's no way a recent graduate could manage that.

Re: “Rest and vest”: engineers who get paid and barely work

#158

Post by trelliscoded »

seattle_spring wrote: post #134

I would argue that the vast majority of software engineers in the US are actually overworked and make close to middle-class wages. It's really unfortunate seeing articles like this, because it reinforces everyone outside of tech's stereotypes that us engineers are lazy, overpaid slobs.

I agree. I've worked with people who actually put in 8 hours of work a day on a regular basis, and it had a huge impact on my desire to get things done. Also, working with Germans.
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