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ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

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Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#201

Post by gonvaled »

kodfodrasz wrote: post #193
danieltillett wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I do know how a counterweights work. In principle if the elevator can be shift sideways then the counterweights can be too. Of course when the elevator goes up and down it will need to be linked to a counterweight, but as long as this linkage can be made transient then should work.

I am not convinced by your understanding. The elevator conserves energy by having a counterweight, and the work needed for moving the elevator (disregarding the loss of the system) is 0 if the elevator is empty and the counterweight is the same weight of the elevator. This is true for the length of the rope. Now if you have a 99 storey building, with side moving elevators, you cannot have counterweights, as the ropes…

Discarding system losses, an elevator without counterweight will also use 0 energy for the up/down cycle (assuming load goes up and some time later down): the energy invested while pulling up the system can be recovered when descending.

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#202

Post by kodfodrasz »

gonvaled wrote: post #201
kodfodrasz wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not convinced by your understanding. The elevator conserves energy by having a counterweight, and the work needed for moving the elevator (disregarding the loss of the system) is 0 if the elevator is empty and the counterweight is the same weight of the elevator. This is true for the length of the rope. Now if you have a 99 storey building, with side moving elevators, you cannot have counterweights, as the ropes…

Discarding system losses, an elevator without counterweight will also use 0 energy for the up/down cycle (assuming load goes up and some time later down): the energy invested while pulling up the system can be recovered when descending.

Yes, at the cost of even more complexity. The problem with this idea is insane complexity.

One of 3 elevators in the office building is out of operation every two weeks. ThyssenKrupp comes and repairs it every now and then. They are simple elevators. The reliability I can imagine from my experience with TK elevators I think the floors will be a better option.

Once I was working for a TK company, and the TK elevator broke down. It was not repaired by the sibling company for a whole month because of some component shortage... That was a simple elevator in a 5 storey building.

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#203

Post by aurora- »

This holds the promise of being able to call a car in the foyer and being delivered directly into your own home in a residential building; directly into the reception of the business you're visiting or working in; or directly door-to-door, business to business within the same building.

It would be really cool in a hospital. No matter how well a hospital is laid out (and many aren't), some patient flows are bottlenecked by the next required treatment or investigation step not being adjacent. To be able to unload a trauma patient from an ambulance in ED and have the same door in the Resus Room lead almost directly to Radiology; Operating Room; or Intensive Care as required would be a time and life saver ...

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#205

Post by kodfodrasz »

kodfodrasz wrote: post #202
gonvaled wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discarding system losses, an elevator without counterweight will also use 0 energy for the up/down cycle (assuming load goes up and some time later down): the energy invested while pulling up the system can be recovered when descending.

Yes, at the cost of even more complexity. The problem with this idea is insane complexity. One of 3 elevators in the office building is out of operation every two weeks. ThyssenKrupp comes and repairs it every now and then. They are simple elevators. The reliability I can imagine from my experience with TK elevators I think the floors will be a better option. Once I was working for a TK company, and the TK elevator b…

> floors i mean stairs.

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#206

Post by danieltillett »

kodfodrasz wrote: post #193
danieltillett wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I do know how a counterweights work. In principle if the elevator can be shift sideways then the counterweights can be too. Of course when the elevator goes up and down it will need to be linked to a counterweight, but as long as this linkage can be made transient then should work.

I am not convinced by your understanding. The elevator conserves energy by having a counterweight, and the work needed for moving the elevator (disregarding the loss of the system) is 0 if the elevator is empty and the counterweight is the same weight of the elevator. This is true for the length of the rope. Now if you have a 99 storey building, with side moving elevators, you cannot have counterweights, as the ropes…

You don’t need ropes to have a counterweight. The same effect can be accomplished with track and gears.

I do agree with you that having independent counterweights would increase the complexity and the likelihood of a breakdown. Ultimately any solution would depend on the value being provided by the solution verse the increased cost or either maintenance or energy costs.

More importantly the purpose of me suggesting this solution was not to solve the elevator problem (I am sure lots of engineers have thought more deeply about this than me), but to discuss the problem.

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#207

Post by kodfodrasz »

danieltillett wrote: post #206
kodfodrasz wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not convinced by your understanding. The elevator conserves energy by having a counterweight, and the work needed for moving the elevator (disregarding the loss of the system) is 0 if the elevator is empty and the counterweight is the same weight of the elevator. This is true for the length of the rope. Now if you have a 99 storey building, with side moving elevators, you cannot have counterweights, as the ropes…

You don’t need ropes to have a counterweight. The same effect can be accomplished with track and gears. I do agree with you that having independent counterweights would increase the complexity and the likelihood of a breakdown. Ultimately any solution would depend on the value being provided by the solution verse the increased cost or either maintenance or energy costs. More importantly the purpose of me suggesting t…

Oh, OK. I think that an energy recuperation system and simply a "vertical railway" is simpler and more robust overall. No ropes needed just electric wiring, and elevators moving down are the counter weights. But this is basically what is demonstrated.

What I thought parent meant was using counterweights in the more traditional sense.

And yes, moving down also returns the energy, after all gravitational field is conservative. The real use of the counterweight is that the power needed to lift is less (you only need to work to lift the cargo), which means cost savings in motors, wiring, electricity, etc. Those saving by a mechanical counterweight system cannot be had with this setup without insane complexity. With today's solid state power electronics it is simpler and more reliable to use an electronic solution.

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#208

Post by lkbm »

stdclass wrote: post #123
minus7 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it'd be a fun game

http://play.elevatorsaga.com/ There you go. Lost so many hours playing this game though.

Thank you for sharing this. I've also now lost quite a few hours to it. Also got two of my coworkers into it.
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