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The cognitive differences between men and women

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Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#81

Post by jules »

closeparen wrote: post #71
jules wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can enforce political correctness but you cannot enforce respect or attraction.

Attraction is the last thing we're trying to engineer in the workplace.

This isn't just about the workplace. It is about behavior in general and where this behavior comes from. Even feminists have admitted to me and other feminists have written articles describing that they find the opposite of what they advocate attractive, and if they are unable to socially engineer themselves there is little chance with society in general. Gendered behaviour is incentivised that way. You find reinforcement of gendered behaviour problematic but forget the most powerful reinforcer.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#82

Post by callesgg »

tunesmith wrote: post #45

Can someone point out to me an example of someone arguing there is no difference between men and women? I regularly see people arguing against this viewpoint, but I am not sure I have ever seen the viewpoint itself.

It is common knowledge that we are all the same, just as it was common knowledge that the earth was flat a few 100 years ago.

People don't argue for common knowledge, it is common knowledge.

Here is a interesting case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVaTc15plVs

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#83

Post by LyndsySimon »

epx wrote: post #24

Men are, by far, more violent. This is a major weakness, or "defect". Why women shouldn't have their own, peculiar, weaknesses? I think that even psychiatric conditions like depression, borderline, ADD, etc. manifest very differently in men and women.

> This is a major weakness, or "defect".

While I agree than men are more prone to violent tendencies than women, as a group, I don't know that I agree that this predisposition is a weakness.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#85

Post by bayonetz »

DalaiObama wrote: post #70
bayonetz wrote: post #36

This topic has obviously become highly socio-political. The current fashion is that there are basically NO biological sex-type differences; that any sex-type differences are socially imposed and generally disadvantageous to women. I think a meta-study style article like this useful to show all the rich and varied science on the matter and to help spark a dialogue around "what if?". If we assume even half of the impli…

> The current fashion is that there are basically NO biological sex-type differences; that any sex-type differences are socially imposed and generally disadvantageous to women. It's important to know that the existence of non physical systematic differences between male and female is as uncontroversial among scientists in the field as climate change is in that field. It's easy to be "pro science" when science confirm…

> When it says you're wrong is when you show how pro science you really are!

That's key. It's perhaps one of the main barriers to exploring this topic. I think it expresses itself mostly unconsciously. It can be terrifying to scrutinize differences and know whatever sub-type you happen to be (man, woman, black, white, etc.) could "come up short" according to some cultural ideal. It's even more terrifying knowing that the measurements and measurers sometimes rig the outcomes of said scrutinizations. I'd hope we'd just try to control and address these terrors rather than stop trying to objectively characterize our differences altogether.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#86

Post by LyndsySimon »

epx wrote: post #57
dogma1138 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men are more physically violent I'm not entirely sure that if we take into account all types of violence that this would still be the case. Latest studies into domestic abuse also hint that there is almost equal parity between men and women as both the victim and the abuser.

Indeed, but domestic physical violence, or threat thereof, is still a bigger problem. If I feel emotionally abused, I threat a visit to a divorce lawyer. On the other hand, if you get a death threat, the remedy is not that easy, because you won't get 24x7 police protection, now what? Not that emotional abuse is not a problem; I dare to say that we men are not sufficiently educated to cope with that, personally I got…

> if you get a death threat, the remedy is not that easy, because you won't get 24x7 police protection, now what?

Buy a gun, learn how to use it, and carry it.

I don't mean to bring gun (control|rights) into this conversation lightly. I'm the father of two young daughters and I'm extremely cognizant of the fact that they will likely always be physically weaker than the men in their lives. Firearms make physical size almost completely irrelevant.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#87

Post by stared »

Food for thought:

* Trans people of Reddit, what was something you weren't expecting to be told, find out, or experience when going through your transition (https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/4g1pgu/serious_t...)

So yes, even hormones by themselves make changes, going beyond cultural pressure and upbringing. Exposure for different chromosomes, and hormones, though all live (including prenatal development) may have even stronger impact.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#88

Post by micahbright »

dogma1138 wrote: post #56
epx wrote: post #24

Men are, by far, more violent. This is a major weakness, or "defect". Why women shouldn't have their own, peculiar, weaknesses? I think that even psychiatric conditions like depression, borderline, ADD, etc. manifest very differently in men and women.

Men are more physically violent I'm not entirely sure that if we take into account all types of violence that this would still be the case. Latest studies into domestic abuse also hint that there is almost equal parity between men and women as both the victim and the abuser.

Actually, there is some research showing women are equally physically violent in domestic situations. Men just go to jail more. But, anyone will point out that if black men go to jail more than white men, it means there is a systemic bias against black men.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#89

Post by bayonetz »

jacalata wrote: post #62
bayonetz wrote: post #36

This topic has obviously become highly socio-political. The current fashion is that there are basically NO biological sex-type differences; that any sex-type differences are socially imposed and generally disadvantageous to women. I think a meta-study style article like this useful to show all the rich and varied science on the matter and to help spark a dialogue around "what if?". If we assume even half of the impli…

> an intelligent evolutionary process Why would anyone believe in this?

Fair point. I should say, it wouldn't surprise me if evolution favored a division of complimentary abilities. It also wouldn't surprise me to instead see a homogenous distribution across sexes as another commenter pointed out. My experience leads me to the first hypothesis. Either way, it's not clear which way evolution did decide on for us. So we should get to the bottom of it. We should be allowed to have hypotheses born out of our experience assuming we can handle being proved wrong, control for confirmation bias, etc. It's quite far from being a solved problem.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#90

Post by exabrial »

closeparen wrote: post #35
phaed wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't save everyone from feeling shitty. It's a similar argument overweight people have against ads showing fit and healthy people, they want those ads removed cause it makes them feel shitty about themselves. What they need to do is analyze why it makes them feel shitty, and if they don't like what they see, rather than try to change everyone else, they should look into changing themselves. If you accept who you…

Being a sensitive man, an ambitious/aggressive woman, etc. is not and should not be treated like obesity. Expecting conformity to these norms causes a great deal of real-world harm (for starters: repressed emotions creating mental health crises in manly men, timidity leading to poor career outcomes for feminine women), and it is right and proper that we ostracize and exclude people who are looking to do so. We should…

The problem may be, you perceive the other's celebration of masculinity as an attack on your persona.

One of my favorite movie scenes is from the Matrix, where Neo is told, "Confidence, it means know thyself." This should be read as knowing both your strengths and your weaknesses so vividly, you can predict your performance and emotional state given a situation.

Practically, if you accept that you are sensitive [nothing wrong with that, a lot of talented artists and musicians are] and that your self-value is defined elsewhere that typical masculinity, then this whole discussion becomes pointless because your validation will come from within. If you're looking to define self-expectations by society and others, you'll struggle forever to be happy or confident.

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