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Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

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Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#241

Post by bogomipz »

nostrademons wrote: post #110
reza_n wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It converts long term housing stock into short term housing, which benefits tourists with cheaper prices and increases the price for residents since both are competing for the same units. Basically, tourists are getting a free ride on the backs of residents. Its always been the other way around, tourists pay extra taxes and fees which go back to the city (and residents) and entrepreneurs build hotels which once again…

The economic response to this (and I'm not saying I agree...I don't have a horse in this race either way) is that a tourist's willingness to pay for accommodation exceeds a resident's, and so they should get the apartment. And the apartment owner can turn around and capture this surplus by renting out their accommodations to tourists on AirBnB. The market price for housing is artificially low in most municipalities b…

>"The economic response to this (and I'm not saying I agree...I don't have a horse in this race either way) is that a tourist's willingness to pay for accommodation exceeds a resident's, and so they should get the apartment.

This in my opinion encapsulates exactly what is wrong with evaluating a complex issue like housing in purely transactional terms. Do cities and their residents have no responsibility to each other beyond "capturing a surplus"?

Certainly what makes their neighborhood interesting and by extension desirable in the first place wasn't the product of purse economics was it? A hotel district where guests stay in apartments formerly occupied by residents doesn't sound like a very interesting or inspiring place.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#242

Post by nostrademons »

wavefunction wrote: post #148
nostrademons wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economic response to this (and I'm not saying I agree...I don't have a horse in this race either way) is that a tourist's willingness to pay for accommodation exceeds a resident's, and so they should get the apartment. And the apartment owner can turn around and capture this surplus by renting out their accommodations to tourists on AirBnB. The market price for housing is artificially low in most municipalities b…

That's not the full economic response. The tourist pays tax for n days a year. The resident does so as well as additional taxes which make the whole city possible. How have we gotten this so backwards?

In a sense, both the host and the guest pay "tax" to AirBnB, in the form of service fees. These fees are then used to provide many of the services that governments have traditionally provided - regulation of commerce, payment processing, dispute resolution, insurance against bad events.

I'd agree that we need some sort of theory of checks & balances for these new global corporate actors. People seem to have reacted to the dysfunction of governments by creating new quasi-governmental actors, but without realizing they've done so.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#243

Post by iaskwhy »

jseliger wrote: post #97
OldSchoolJohnny wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who is experiencing the implications of a super low rental vacancy rate, I think most people in my situation are with me when we say shut it down, entirely, in any city with a low tenancy vacancy rate. It's hurting society at large to the benefit of a precious few.

I think most people in my situation are with me when we say shut it down, entirely, in any city with a low tenancy vacancy rate. It's hurting society at large to the benefit of a precious few. You know, I've heard about some crazy cutting-edge technologies like steel frames and elevators that can allow us to raise the vacancy rate by increasing the total number of usable units in a given metro area.

We might need to consider not all cities are made to be tall. You cannot make Lisbon or Vienna go tall, otherwise it's not Lisbon or Vienna anymore... Also, it's silly to move local residents to the outskirts to have tourists right in the city center as tourists don't have to commute on a daily basis, they can be away from the center, it's perfectly fine for them.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#244

Post by Jabanga »

bigdubs wrote: post #143
cvsh wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is seeing someone new every three days an intrinsic wrong that we need to right with legislation?

Higher incidents of noise violations, higher trash output, there are a bunch of factors that make hotel guests / airbnb guests less desirable than a typical tenant.

The same could apply to gender, race, age, and occupation groups. I don't think it's good policy to create laws based on generalisations.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#245

Post by Jabanga »

michaelmrose wrote: post #140
Jabanga wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. You're simply demonstrating NIMBYism. You get to stay in one of the most geographically desirable locations in the world and in order to pay lower rent you want to prevent others who live in much less geographically desirable places from renting units in your locale so that they can get to enjo…

Extremely high rent would seem to be indicative of too few housing units turning some of them into hotels might not be the best thing for everyone.

Turning them into hotels reduces short term rental rates. If long term rental rates are extremely high, short term rental rates will be as well.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#246

Post by brookside »

tptacek wrote: post #234
brookside wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a New Yorker who has recently considered buying an apartment in Queens, short-term rental prohibition isn't a law I want. A NYC apartment would be my biggest financial commitment, and not having help with the mortgage from a subleter when I elect to travel at any point over the next 30 years is a crippling constraint.

Why should your neighbors help shoulder the cost of your financing your vacations with short-term renters?

How would they be?

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#247

Post by TomMarius »

andr wrote: post #31

If AirBnB gave me the option to filter actual lived-in apartments, as opposed to professional operations, I would definitely prioritize those. I miss the original feeling of booking someone's actual apartment, sharing their history, books, way of life, even weird knock-knacks. IKEA catalog living rooms get old quickly.

They actually offer this: you can switch to "private room" or "shared room" listings instead of looking at "entire homes".

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#248

Post by zimablue »

OldSchoolJohnny wrote: post #78
3pt14159 wrote: post #51

Look, we have a couple problems: low interest rates, large variance in productivity / earnings, really shitty hotels because they're operating on old-world assumptions. One under appreciated thing about apps like Uber and AirBnb is the star rating system. I know I'm a five star tenant. I know I never shit in the sink. I know I never leave a bunch of condoms or cigar butts all over the balcony or hotel room. But the h…

Speaking as someone who is experiencing the implications of a super low rental vacancy rate, I think most people in my situation are with me when we say shut it down, entirely, in any city with a low tenancy vacancy rate. It's hurting society at large to the benefit of a precious few.

Well I'm in your situation, and I disagree. Under the current socioeconomic system and pricing I'll likely never afford to own where I live, but things which make house pricing more efficient aren't the enemy.

I'd kill stamp duty (uk tax on buying/selling properties), push for higher urban density, push for wealth taxes because there are underlying problems, trying to bluntly manipulate the market doesn't generally have great outcomes.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#249

Post by zimablue »

tptacek wrote: post #165
jseliger wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. It's a problem. The real problem here is not Airbnb, which is a symptom; it's zoning, which forbids market-clearing prices and a sufficient number of units to satisfy demand for living in and visiting the city. For more on this, see e.g. Matt Yglesias's The Rent is Too Damn High : https://www.am…

There is no hotel zoning that any city would come up with that would allow for the creation of one-room hotels in the middle of condo and apartment buildings.

I'm not sure there's great evidence that zoning actually has positive outcomes, I remember reading long articles on how places with less zoning can often turn out better. American zoning has entrenched cars and made sterile neighbourhoods allegedly.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#250

Post by return0 »

andr wrote: post #31

If AirBnB gave me the option to filter actual lived-in apartments, as opposed to professional operations, I would definitely prioritize those. I miss the original feeling of booking someone's actual apartment, sharing their history, books, way of life, even weird knock-knacks. IKEA catalog living rooms get old quickly.

Learning the knick-knacks of strangers you dont know in the slightest FOR A PRICE is a weird feeling i have with airbnb. It feels intrusive, and it's creepy, but we don't admit it because it's convenient. This is the wrong way to satisfy our need for intimacy.
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