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Millennials returning to Puerto Rico, launching startups

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Re: Millennials returning to Puerto Rico, launching startups

#71

Post by adolfojp »

jrs95 wrote: post #39
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #12

I was born and raised in Puerto Rico, but left to work in tech. As with any place, there's some good points and there's some bad points. Below are some points that someone moving to Puerto Rico might want to know. In my opinion, their greatest achievement has been in its educational system. Despite its huge list of problems, UPR enables people of any background to receive an affordable high quality college education.…

Isn't there a crime problem? The murder rate in PR is like 30% higher than it is in Mexico...

To summarize, Puerto Rico's murder rate is higher than the murder rate of the USA and Mexico but no place in Puerto Rico is as deadly as the deadliest places in the USA and Mexico. Allow me to explain.

Using statistics from 2014 (because that's when I last did the research) San Juan's murder rate was lower than the murder rate of Detroit, New Orleans, St. Louis, Baltimore, Newark, and Oakland. It was a tad worse than Chicago. It's also important to keep in mind that most murders in Puerto Rico are the result of gang on gang warfare and just like everywhere else there are some good neighborhoods and some bad neighborhoods. Compared to Mexico San Juan's murder rate is a fraction of the murder rate of cities like Acapulco and lower than infamous border cities like Tijuana.

Puerto Rico as a whole has a higher murder rate than the USA and Mexico because of its ridiculously high population density. It's a small island (roughly the size of Connecticut) but it has one of the highest population densities in the states. Even in rural areas you're only a stone's throws away from your neighbor. In the USA and Mexico, however, you average the murder rate of thousands of safe and quiet towns with the murder rate of a few bad cities so you end up with relatively good numbers.

To give you some perspective, if you were to choose between Mexico and Puerto Rico without intimate knowledge of the two places you would probably choose Mexico because it has a lower murder rate than Puerto Rico. But if you were to choose between Acapulco and San Juan you would definitely choose San Juan because its murder rate is less than a third than the murder rate of Acapulco even though San Juan is Puerto Rico's deadliest city.

Re: Millennials returning to Puerto Rico, launching startups

#72

Post by adolfojp »

yardie wrote: post #35
huac wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is healthcare in PR now?

PR is a developed country in a developing country neighbourhood. Healthcare is cheaper than the US but some specialties are hard to get an appointment. The neighbours, DR Cuba, FWI, are a cheap ferry or puddle jump away. So for the common ailments, you have neighbouring islands keeping prices in check. That's a sailor's perspective on PR healthcare. Since I'm not part of their health care system I looked at it as is…

Few people travel from Puerto Rico to the DR or even Cuba to get Healthcare.

Re: Millennials returning to Puerto Rico, launching startups

#73

Post by celticninja »

adolfojp wrote: post #71
jrs95 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there a crime problem? The murder rate in PR is like 30% higher than it is in Mexico...

To summarize, Puerto Rico's murder rate is higher than the murder rate of the USA and Mexico but no place in Puerto Rico is as deadly as the deadliest places in the USA and Mexico. Allow me to explain. Using statistics from 2014 (because that's when I last did the research) San Juan's murder rate was lower than the murder rate of Detroit, New Orleans, St. Louis, Baltimore, Newark, and Oakland. It was a tad worse than…

Lies, damn lies and statistics in practice.

What I mean is statistics can be considerably more misleading when the methodology is not explained. I found your comment incredibly helpful in understanding the point you were making.

Re: Millennials returning to Puerto Rico, launching startups

#74

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

jrs95 wrote: post #39
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #12

I was born and raised in Puerto Rico, but left to work in tech. As with any place, there's some good points and there's some bad points. Below are some points that someone moving to Puerto Rico might want to know. In my opinion, their greatest achievement has been in its educational system. Despite its huge list of problems, UPR enables people of any background to receive an affordable high quality college education.…

Isn't there a crime problem? The murder rate in PR is like 30% higher than it is in Mexico...

I moved out roughly four years ago, and no longer follow their news very closely, so take my response with a grain of salt.

When I was living there, I generally didn't feel unsafe. As long as you avoid dangerous areas, I think the likelihood of something happening to you is fairly low. Although I'll admit I feel safer in Santa Clara. Certain parts of San Francisco feel pretty unsafe to me. I'd avoid walking around Tenderloin at night just as much as La Perla.

I've been told that even though the murder rate is high, it's mostly due to gang and drug related violence.

One of my friends that lives in the metropolitan area told me that in recent years she has felt less safe than before. She claims that she has perceived an increase in brutality, and that criminals no longer give a fuck. This is a rough paraphrased translation.

Re: Millennials returning to Puerto Rico, launching startups

#75

Post by [deleted] »

true_religion wrote: post #24
tomjakubowski wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a Gini coefficient (.531 as of 2011) between Guatemala (.530) and Colombia (.535). Italy and Spain are at .319 and .359 respectively. The US as a whole is .475.

It's an inequality coefficient, not any kind of measure of how "nice" a country is for someone living there. Countries with a high Gini, tend to segregate more heavily than those who don't, which for the typical 'rich' software developer means that they'll live in a trendy area and know to avoid the 'ghetto'. For example, Miami has a high gini at ~0.6 to 0.7 which gives you the palaces overlooking shacks effect of Mi…

[deleted]

Re: Millennials returning to Puerto Rico, launching startups

#76

Post by Spooky23 »

denom wrote: post #48
freehunter wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PR isn’t a country. It’s part of the US.

For that to be completely true Puerto Rico would have representation in the federal legislature. Puerto Rico has it's own Olympic team. Which is sort of a basis for considering PR as a country.

Only US States are recognized in Congress. Puerto Rico, among other places is a territory which gives it a delegate to congress, but no direct participation. It's also not considered sovereign, which US States nominally are.

This has advantages and disadvantages... there's no tax, but also no Senators or congresspeople who give a hoot. Sometimes congressional delegations from places with big Puerto Rican populations will push for policy to secure votes on the mainland.

Also remember that it's a colony, and it's standing is colored by the baggage of colonialism, and there is a split between people who favor that status quo, statehood and independence.

Statehood will never happen unless there is a Democratic supermajority in the Senate.

Re: Millennials returning to Puerto Rico, launching startups

#77

Post by somberi »

Some relevant reading before you pack your bags :)

https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/2172167...

And someone asked why it is not a state yet:

https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21723149-more-6...

And an year-old article about the troubles facing PR:

https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2016/05/e...

Re: Millennials returning to Puerto Rico, launching startups

#78

Post by totalZero »

jameslk wrote: post #68
javiramos wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eric and Bryan, the two founders of Lunchera featured in the article, are good friends of mine from MIT. They definitely didn't return to the island for tax reasons. Puerto Ricans are passionate about their "isla" - hard to explain to people expecting rational reasons.

That's cool for Eric and Bryan, but I was more making a point about the subject of the article: millennials who are launching startups in Puerto Rico. The narrative that the article paints about this cohort moving to Puerto Rico just out of pure love of the island sounds starry-eyed and naive. Businesses make business decisions, and incredible tax breaks need to be factored into that rational. At the very least, the…

Millennials doing startups usually don't have much income to speak of. That's the nature of young people, and that's also the nature of startups. This is probably why there was little mention of the tax incentive; it's largely irrelevant to people who are investing their few resources into a from-scratch business.

If we're talking about business decisions, there are probably several reasons why you would NOT want to go to PR, which far outweigh the lighter tax burden.

Eric has a love of entrepreneurship and a love for Puerto Rico, and doing a GrubHub-like startup in his hometown of Ponce just totally makes sense in that context. In that light, surprisingly, I think the narrative is far from starry-eyed and naive.

Re: Millennials returning to Puerto Rico, launching startups

#79

Post by totalZero »

albertogui wrote: post #50
pavlov wrote: post #41

I'm not American, so would someone knowledgeable indulge me the obvious question: Why is Puerto Rico not a state while e.g. Hawaii is? Is it the language -- a Spanish-majority state would not get the approval from other states to join the union? Or something less obvious?

It's hard to become a state when the majority of the population only speaks Spanish and the island has its own constitution.

Every state in the USA has its own constitution as well.

Re: Millennials returning to Puerto Rico, launching startups

#80

Post by Spooky23 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #47
true_religion wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an inequality coefficient, not any kind of measure of how "nice" a country is for someone living there. Countries with a high Gini, tend to segregate more heavily than those who don't, which for the typical 'rich' software developer means that they'll live in a trendy area and know to avoid the 'ghetto'. For example, Miami has a high gini at ~0.6 to 0.7 which gives you the palaces overlooking shacks effect of Mi…

> they'll live in a trendy area and know to avoid the 'ghetto' cough cough the Bay Area. Seriously, though, the Santa Clara County metropolitan statistical area clocks in at 0.45 while New York is 0.60 [1]. [1] https://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/acsbr10-18.pdf

County statistics are misleading here. Santa Clara County is a big place (almost the size of Long Island) with lots of municipalities. New York County is just 1 of 5 counties that encompass New York City!

If you look at Brooklyn (Kings County), the number is 0.499, Queens County the number is 0.433.

According to another site, the citywide number was 0.547 in 2013. ( https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/inequality-new-york-city-we... )

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