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Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

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Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#171

Post by matt4077 »

x220 wrote: post #105
tootie wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber started out as ride sharing, now it's an international taxi service.

And an international regulation avoidance service.

And an international bro-themed VC party, currently in the phase where you're already throwing up, but still buzzed enough to kinda enjoy it–if only you didn't know from experience that you'll soon be suffering a terrible headache, will have to deal with the fallout of some rather bad decisions you made, and will generally swear to yourself and your spouse that you'll never do it again.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#172

Post by closeparen »

tptacek wrote: post #165
jseliger wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. It's a problem. The real problem here is not Airbnb, which is a symptom; it's zoning, which forbids market-clearing prices and a sufficient number of units to satisfy demand for living in and visiting the city. For more on this, see e.g. Matt Yglesias's The Rent is Too Damn High : https://www.am…

There is no hotel zoning that any city would come up with that would allow for the creation of one-room hotels in the middle of condo and apartment buildings.

Sure, but Airbnb is (from one angle) just a weird and hacky way of adding more hotel rooms to a city's supply. Zoning that permitted more and taller hotels could meet demand with fewer negative externalities.

Similarly, relaxed zoning for residential buildings could lower the size of the effect on the housing market when a unit is converted to Airbnb use.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#173

Post by Jasper_ »

IanDrake wrote: post #160
Sir_Substance wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You're simply demonstrating NIMBYism. I signed a 12 month rental agreement for an apartment in Reykjavik in 2015. About a month after I moved in, the apartment above me was sold to an ABnBer, and for the rest of the year I had a rotating troop of loud holidayers cycling through. I took to sleeping with earplugs every night, and still often was kept up until 1 or 2 on a weeknight. Needless to say, I moved the second…

That sounds terrible, but would it be less terrible if your loud and obnoxious neighbors were long term renters? My vacation rentals have rules, especially about noise. If you break the rules I can literally force you to leave right then, as in, collect your stuff and go right now. You have no recourse. The police will help me toss you if you don't go willingly. If I rented to you long term, I don't have that luxury.…

But as a host, you want the 5 star rating for fear of being delisted. If you throw someone out, goodbye to your lucrative vacation rental.

Noise complaints from other tenants often fall on deaf ears.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#174

Post by closeparen »

bradleyjg wrote: post #163
santoshalper wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, like Uber, for customers it is a massive improvement over the alternative. I am taking my family to Atlanta next week for my son's birthday. Using AirBNB (or equivalent service) saved me well over $1500 for the trip - we would have needed three hotel rooms but rented a house instead. As an added bonus, instead of all that money going to a large corporation, it will go to an individual. The level of myopia he…

Because, like Uber, for customers it is a massive improvement over the alternative. ... The level of myopia here is staggering. It is indeed. You, the host, and AirBnB are splitting the gains from ignoring laws designed to internalize externalities. Instead you celebrate privatizing benefits and pushing costs onto others. Yes, it benefits you in the short run. Most anti-social behavior does. Do you teach your childre…

The externalities are... what exactly? Too much foot traffic to your door? That's hardly analogous to toxic waste dumping.

(Assuming you are talking about single room rather than whole home rentals. Whole home rentals certainly do have the toxic effect of lowering housing supply in cities starved for rentals).

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#175

Post by tptacek »

closeparen wrote: post #172
tptacek wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no hotel zoning that any city would come up with that would allow for the creation of one-room hotels in the middle of condo and apartment buildings.

Sure, but Airbnb is (from one angle) just a weird and hacky way of adding more hotel rooms to a city's supply. Zoning that permitted more and taller hotels could meet demand with fewer negative externalities. Similarly, relaxed zoning for residential buildings could lower the size of the effect on the housing market when a unit is converted to Airbnb use.

You're fleeing to abstraction. I'm making a simple point, derived from the specific complaint that my NYC friends have about Airbnb: there is no plausible change to hotel regulation that would ever allow people to open up single-room hotels in apartment and condo buildings.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#176

Post by bradleyjg »

closeparen wrote: post #174
bradleyjg wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, like Uber, for customers it is a massive improvement over the alternative. ... The level of myopia here is staggering. It is indeed. You, the host, and AirBnB are splitting the gains from ignoring laws designed to internalize externalities. Instead you celebrate privatizing benefits and pushing costs onto others. Yes, it benefits you in the short run. Most anti-social behavior does. Do you teach your childre…

The externalities are... what exactly? Too much foot traffic to your door? That's hardly analogous to toxic waste dumping. (Assuming you are talking about single room rather than whole home rentals. Whole home rentals certainly do have the toxic effect of lowering housing supply in cities starved for rentals).

Do you think the grandparent poster is renting a single room when he takes his family to Atlanta next week? Also, what percentage of AirBnB revenue do you think comes from single room rentals?

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#177

Post by IanDrake »

matt4077 wrote: post #151
santoshalper wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, like Uber, for customers it is a massive improvement over the alternative. I am taking my family to Atlanta next week for my son's birthday. Using AirBNB (or equivalent service) saved me well over $1500 for the trip - we would have needed three hotel rooms but rented a house instead. As an added bonus, instead of all that money going to a large corporation, it will go to an individual. The level of myopia he…

This isn't "sharing economy" anymore. The term was coined for what AirBnB and Uber may have originally been: lower transaction costs to capture the value of space/car seats that would otherwise go unused. That idea got a warm welcome because it's almost universally good; Not just for those buying and selling, but producing positive externalities along the way: more car sharing means less traffic and lower emissions e…

>The difference that remains is just a different allocation along several zero-sum trade-offs.

I have to disagree with that. Perhaps that is likely the case in cities, but more broadly you're wrong. The pie has gotten much, much bigger.

There was no pie where I live and now there is. Across much of the country in smaller cities and towns were you couldn't get a cab, you can now get an uber.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#178

Post by closeparen »

arkitaip wrote: post #146
cvsh wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is seeing someone new every three days an intrinsic wrong that we need to right with legislation?

Now you're just being obtuse on purpose.

Uh, no, all of the suburban neighborhoods and high-density urban buildings I've lived in have had move-ins and move-outs basically every week of the year. I've never enjoyed, nor felt the need for, low turnover among neighbors.

Possibly there are arguments that this is a right under certain circumstances (HOA, co-op, etc. agreements) but it's not obvious that low turnover among neighbors is a right in general.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#179

Post by IanDrake »

tptacek wrote: post #166
IanDrake wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds terrible, but would it be less terrible if your loud and obnoxious neighbors were long term renters? My vacation rentals have rules, especially about noise. If you break the rules I can literally force you to leave right then, as in, collect your stuff and go right now. You have no recourse. The police will help me toss you if you don't go willingly. If I rented to you long term, I don't have that luxury.…

Yes: you can be evicted over persistent noise complaints.

Evicted being the key word. That is a very long process.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#180

Post by CamelCaseName »

thisisit wrote: post #3

Is this surprising at all? Most "sharing" apps are now overrun by professionals in their field. The apps help the professional (or company) achieve zero cost customer acquisition cost. In case the apps do catch up, these guys end up being "promoted" because they are a good fit. The pros make for much better "sales target" for these sharing apps.

This is only true if the professional has the ability to scale. In other words, if they are selling a product (a place to rent) vs. a service (driving someone somewhere e.g. Uber)
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