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The cognitive differences between men and women

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Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#31

Post by mcappleton »

mempko wrote: post #26

My response here will be unpopular but. Yes, there are cognitive difference, but it doesn't matter. Building software is a complex social event and requires incalculable amount of different skills sets and team effort. To use single differences to claim men are better at software like the Google guy did is just stupid. It's unscientific conjecture born out of likely deep seated issues many nerds, like me and others,…

>Yes, there are cognitive difference, but it doesn't matter.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim? You make a lot of assertions that I think these guys scientific experiments refute.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#32

Post by belorn »

jostmey wrote: post #5

I'd like to think society can truely embrace diversity instead of uniformity. Sadly, racial and sex discrimination still exist leaving society stuck with imperfect solutions to deep rooted problems.

Diversity based on grouping people together has several drawbacks, among others that "us and them" is strongly connected to hostility and dehumanization. Discrimination is only possible when people are sorted into distinct groups rather than embracing that all humans have some uniformable traits that define everyone as human.

A "us and them" thinking is directly linked to our emotional reaction to security. Many (majority?) feel more insecure when isolated and surrounded by people they associated as "them", with the opposite feeling when surrounded by "us". "us and them" is involved in practically every war ever fought, and many conflict is resolved by having the distinction of "us and them" being erased, rather then embrace how different "them" are and later embrace it.

I would like to think that society can truely embrace how similar people are and start to perceive everyone as belong to "us".

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#33

Post by [deleted] »

d33 wrote: post #8
jostmey wrote: post #5

I'd like to think society can truely embrace diversity instead of uniformity. Sadly, racial and sex discrimination still exist leaving society stuck with imperfect solutions to deep rooted problems.

Could you give an example of an "imperfect solution to a deep rooted problem"?

[deleted]

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#34

Post by gehwartzen »

closeparen wrote: post #12
exabrial wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^ this ^ so much. It makes me very sad to see male masculinity being shamed and female empathy mocked as a weakness. The important differences should be celebrated, not viewed as a superiority contest.

How are you going to do that in a way that isn't shitty to "feminine" men or "masculine" women?

Why would stating that, on average, a certain group has certain characteristics make those that are further from the mean, or even complete outliers, feel shitty?

For example pointing out that people with darker skin, which strongly correlated with certain ethnic groups, are more protected from UV radiation shouldn't make someone from that same ethnic group feel shitty if they happen to have lighter skin.

I suppose I would agree that terms masculine and feminine are pretty subjective and more culturally defined so one could more easily take offense.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#35

Post by closeparen »

phaed wrote: post #22
closeparen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you going to do that in a way that isn't shitty to "feminine" men or "masculine" women?

You can't save everyone from feeling shitty. It's a similar argument overweight people have against ads showing fit and healthy people, they want those ads removed cause it makes them feel shitty about themselves. What they need to do is analyze why it makes them feel shitty, and if they don't like what they see, rather than try to change everyone else, they should look into changing themselves. If you accept who you…

Being a sensitive man, an ambitious/aggressive woman, etc. is not and should not be treated like obesity. Expecting conformity to these norms causes a great deal of real-world harm (for starters: repressed emotions creating mental health crises in manly men, timidity leading to poor career outcomes for feminine women), and it is right and proper that we ostracize and exclude people who are looking to do so.

We should celebrate people displaying traits that are well-adapted to the situation at hand, not the traits they "should" have based on some immutable identity bit.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#36

Post by bayonetz »

This topic has obviously become highly socio-political. The current fashion is that there are basically NO biological sex-type differences; that any sex-type differences are socially imposed and generally disadvantageous to women. I think a meta-study style article like this useful to show all the rich and varied science on the matter and to help spark a dialogue around "what if?". If we assume even half of the implications of the cited studies here are true, then that is plenty of sex-type difference to recon with. The citings show as many differences favoring women as they do men. They are just that -- differences, each with their requisite pros and cons. It just makes sense that an intelligent evolutionary process would have lead to the sexes as being best as partners with a division of complimentary abilities and preferences. I can't see us making much progress on the societal equalization across sexes if we don't embrace and harness the very real differences that exist between them.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#38

Post by Pilfer »

mempko wrote: post #26

My response here will be unpopular but. Yes, there are cognitive difference, but it doesn't matter. Building software is a complex social event and requires incalculable amount of different skills sets and team effort. To use single differences to claim men are better at software like the Google guy did is just stupid. It's unscientific conjecture born out of likely deep seated issues many nerds, like me and others,…

>To use single differences to claim men are better at software like the Google guy did is just stupid

No. The google author never claims anything of this sort. In one of his minor points, he argues that why we don’t have 50% representation of women in tech may be explained through biological causes, backed by statistical studies. He never claims men are better at software, that's something you made up.

His core point, is actually he wants to promote diversity, as in the author believes certain viewpoints (specifically conservative ones) are suppressed at google which prevents honest discussion. He argues this suppression is causing an ideological echo chamber.

To me it seems like you responding to what you think his point is, not his actual point. The original document has now been leaked, the author's views are clearly explained in the tl;dr section http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-div...

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#39

Post by closeparen »

gehwartzen wrote: post #34
closeparen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you going to do that in a way that isn't shitty to "feminine" men or "masculine" women?

Why would stating that, on average, a certain group has certain characteristics make those that are further from the mean, or even complete outliers, feel shitty? For example pointing out that people with darker skin, which strongly correlated with certain ethnic groups, are more protected from UV radiation shouldn't make someone from that same ethnic group feel shitty if they happen to have lighter skin. I suppose I…

You're talking about stating an observation; parent is talking about celebrating group characteristics.

The main problem here is that when you celebrate stereotypical traits, you ostracize people from the group who don't have the stereotypical traits.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#40

Post by danharaj »

mcappleton wrote: post #31
mempko wrote: post #26

My response here will be unpopular but. Yes, there are cognitive difference, but it doesn't matter. Building software is a complex social event and requires incalculable amount of different skills sets and team effort. To use single differences to claim men are better at software like the Google guy did is just stupid. It's unscientific conjecture born out of likely deep seated issues many nerds, like me and others,…

>Yes, there are cognitive difference, but it doesn't matter. Do you have any evidence to back up this claim? You make a lot of assertions that I think these guys scientific experiments refute.

What percentage of programming performance is visualizing rotations of 3d objects in your head?

The parent's post is based on a reasonable heuristic: Programming is an activity with challenges that require a broad set of skills both technical and social. If such work requires a sufficient diversity of skills to be done effectively, differences in individual skills are less important than the proficiency of the group as a whole.

Heuristics are the only thing that can guide here. How many studies are there that bridge the gap between basic cognitive tasks and something as complex as creating software at a company?

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