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Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

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Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no rent cap in Germany. The article is wrong. Germany has only "soft" rent controls that limit YOY increases in rent and (selectively) increases in rents when changing tenants. German economic orthodoxy relies very much on the need to build housing in order to deal with housing shortages and with rising rents due to housing shortages. The "soft" rent controls simply buy time to get housing projects underway.…

> Berlin's currently problem is excessive urbanization driven by migration (1) from the neighbouring comparatively poor East German states and (2) of foreigners who speak only English and hence prefer a city that has already evolved to accommodate English speakers. No. Berlin problems mostly stem from the city government colluding with investor scum to build luxury apartments instead of actually affordable ones plus…

Governments mainly value people as taxpayers, because taxpayers pay into the public coffers, which can then be emptied to ameliorate social disputes and ease reelection. If you don't pay taxes and do consume services at the same time, as a squatter does, you're making your leaders' lives harder and they will find a way to get rid of you.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#142
post #3

Is this surprising at all? Most "sharing" apps are now overrun by professionals in their field. The apps help the professional (or company) achieve zero cost customer acquisition cost. In case the apps do catch up, these guys end up being "promoted" because they are a good fit. The pros make for much better "sales target" for these sharing apps.

Any sort of market gradually becomes consolidated over time, until 2 or 3 big firms dominate it. Professionals practice specialization, which will always give them an advantage over amateurs. Sharing platforms at least don't lock out amateurs with high entry costs.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#143
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, maybe, he just want the people living on the other side of his bedroom wall to be some stable neighbors and not seeing someone new every three days.

Why is seeing someone new every three days an intrinsic wrong that we need to right with legislation?

Higher incidents of noise violations, higher trash output, there are a bunch of factors that make hotel guests / airbnb guests less desirable than a typical tenant.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#144
I'm one of those people who really doesn't like these kinds of x-sharing services when they're just breaking the law. But when they aren't I'm all for the competition and additional money making opportunities it creates for participants.

I'm getting ready to go on my 3rd multi-week trip with housing provided almost entirely by airBnB. So far I've been generally very pleased with most of the hosts. In general, I've found the ones outside of the U.S. tend to provide a better experience per dollar than in the U.S. I've also found myself at some delightful B&B's who just list on AirBnB instead of other methods. On the other hand, I've also found myself in some sketchy group home like experiences with no owner to be found (mostly in the U.S.).

The hard part of it is this, I can put together a multi-location road trip across six or seven countries in a few short hours on AirBnB because all of the "vendors" list there (many times faster than doing it with hotels), and the total price will be 1/2 to 1/3rd the price of doing it in hotels, and the quality of the experience will be about on par with any 3-star hotel I'm likely to find. I've yet to break $70/night on AirBnB (for entire flats/apartments) because there's usually so much inventory. The locations can be better than "hotel districts" and I can usually find something very custom and suited to what I want.

The reviews also reinforce the honesty of the listing, whereas hotels will show pictures of a model room with idealized lighting and the reality is often not the same. Bonus, we've often gotten to talk with pretty interesting people, seen interesting neighborhoods we would have ignored before and use public transport much more fully than we would have otherwise.

I think the easiest way for hotels to compete against AirBnB is to simply start listing on it and competing, room-for-room. Room 607 in the local Marriott has a noise problem? It'll show up in the reviews. Front-desk clerks rude in the Albany, NY Holiday Inn? It'll show up. Prices too high for what you get? It'll have to compete against local housing inventory.

I'm also very sympathetic to many of the comments here regarding areas with very high housing prices. In terms of local housing strategy, simply banning these kinds of services should be part of a local multi-pronged strategy to reduce housing prices (along with limiting other investment options). But I'm not so sure it's a universal problem. Every time I've booked big trips on AirBnB I've always found hosts who are renting out multiple properties and don't live in most of them. However, in many cities, looking at the rates they're charging, they're not suffering from the same kind of systemic housing shortages places like SF or NYC are.

One other thing to consider in tight markets. If the local municipalities aren't going to restrict investment ownership, AirBnB may end up being a better user of the investment properties than people who simply buy up properties and they lay completely abandoned for years. Because the market that AirBnB has to work in is different than say, foreign investors, it also might help better shape the kinds of properties that get built to eventually be more affordable. e.g. 432 Park Ave is going to end up mostly uninhabited even if the "tenancy" is at 100% and none of those apartments are going to end up on AirBnB. This inventory of $30million dollar apartments is not going to go anywhere. But AirBnB investory might be on the lookout for more affordable construction to invest in, knowing that someday they'll sell the property off to more regular buyers and need to rent it to normal people as well in the meanwhile.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#145
post #17

Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. It's a problem. None of this is a surprise, so much so that AirBnB seems to be aware of this and is acting in a way that's, at best, ethically challenged and, at worst, illegal eg deleting listings before giving data to the state of NY that "shows" most hosts only have one unit [1]. If people wa…

Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. It's a problem. The real problem here is not Airbnb, which is a symptom; it's zoning, which forbids market-clearing prices and a sufficient number of units to satisfy demand for living in and visiting the city. For more on this, see e.g. Matt Yglesias's The Rent is Too Damn High : https://www.am…

Yes and by nature too much money is at stake. Government in nyc is thus unreparably corrupt. The only practical answer is to simply shrink governmemt so that ethical, yet illega, behavior can flourish.

Society is not built on law, it is built on willpower.

If you have the will to compete against the hotel lobby and corrupt government, more power to you.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#146
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, maybe, he just want the people living on the other side of his bedroom wall to be some stable neighbors and not seeing someone new every three days.

Why is seeing someone new every three days an intrinsic wrong that we need to right with legislation?

Now you're just being obtuse on purpose.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#147
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In NYC here as well; I think AirBNB is a pox. It's a great and useful product, I can't dispute that. But the economic ramifications of it outweigh the benefits by a large margin. And when you add on the unregulated latent racism (multiple reports, too lazy to cite) and the fact that there's next to zero safety checks in place for things like smoke detectors and so on, it's really sort of surprising that so many peopl…

Because, like Uber, for customers it is a massive improvement over the alternative. I am taking my family to Atlanta next week for my son's birthday. Using AirBNB (or equivalent service) saved me well over $1500 for the trip - we would have needed three hotel rooms but rented a house instead. As an added bonus, instead of all that money going to a large corporation, it will go to an individual. The level of myopia he…

Not really. I used to use AirBnB, but I went back to hotels. It's worth the extra money. Let me know how it works out for you and your family when you get there and the host is nowhere to be found and doesn't pick up his phone for 3 hours because he forgot, or you realize at 1am on a Saturday you forgot to take the key to the front door with you and there's nothing you can do about it until 10am, or afterwards when you get an angry 1 star review from the host because you left in a hurry to catch a flight and forgot to put a sheet in the dryer.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#148
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It converts long term housing stock into short term housing, which benefits tourists with cheaper prices and increases the price for residents since both are competing for the same units. Basically, tourists are getting a free ride on the backs of residents. Its always been the other way around, tourists pay extra taxes and fees which go back to the city (and residents) and entrepreneurs build hotels which once again…

The economic response to this (and I'm not saying I agree...I don't have a horse in this race either way) is that a tourist's willingness to pay for accommodation exceeds a resident's, and so they should get the apartment. And the apartment owner can turn around and capture this surplus by renting out their accommodations to tourists on AirBnB. The market price for housing is artificially low in most municipalities b…

That's not the full economic response. The tourist pays tax for n days a year. The resident does so as well as additional taxes which make the whole city possible.

How have we gotten this so backwards?

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#149
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It converts long term housing stock into short term housing, which benefits tourists with cheaper prices and increases the price for residents since both are competing for the same units. Basically, tourists are getting a free ride on the backs of residents. Its always been the other way around, tourists pay extra taxes and fees which go back to the city (and residents) and entrepreneurs build hotels which once again…

The economic response to this (and I'm not saying I agree...I don't have a horse in this race either way) is that a tourist's willingness to pay for accommodation exceeds a resident's, and so they should get the apartment. And the apartment owner can turn around and capture this surplus by renting out their accommodations to tourists on AirBnB. The market price for housing is artificially low in most municipalities b…

Most of the population is in the bucket that will be harmed by high housing prices, won't ever be able to derive any benefit from owning additional housing for rent, and will only occasionally if at all benefit from cheaper vacation rentals.

The people who will benefit most are the top 10% will will ultimately own most everything and can afford the hotel fare.

In short, screw them.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extended stay hotels will offer rooms with a kitchens, and can accommodate a family of 5, maybe just not for a price you like. Just be honest and say you like it cause its cheaper and you think your vacation is more important than the needs of residents.

Extended stay hotels require an extended stay, don't they? It's been 45 years since I stayed in a single place for 30 days while on vacation. And please let's keep this civil.

No, extended stay places do not require an extended stay. They are just equipped to provide for an extended stay should you choose to do so.
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