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Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

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Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#121
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It converts long term housing stock into short term housing, which benefits tourists with cheaper prices and increases the price for residents since both are competing for the same units. Basically, tourists are getting a free ride on the backs of residents. Its always been the other way around, tourists pay extra taxes and fees which go back to the city (and residents) and entrepreneurs build hotels which once again…

The economic response to this (and I'm not saying I agree...I don't have a horse in this race either way) is that a tourist's willingness to pay for accommodation exceeds a resident's, and so they should get the apartment. And the apartment owner can turn around and capture this surplus by renting out their accommodations to tourists on AirBnB. The market price for housing is artificially low in most municipalities b…

A society where only a select few own property? I believe Europe tried that for 100's of years. I doubt you'd find many people willing to go back to serfdom.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#122

Is this a surprise? If you look at eBay, it's also dominated by professional sellers as well. In some sense it makes it better because you have motivated people handling the transaction, not one-off people that might not take the transaction seriously.

> not one-off people that might not take the transaction seriously

But this is exactly what's needed to keep costs down. Consumers have the choice of professionally managed and regulated hotels, for a higher price, or to take a chance on some guy's couch in a basement, for very cheap, because hospitality isn't couch-guy's day job and it's just a way for him to make an extra quick buck. That couch-guy is a one-off is supposed to be the entire value proposition why AirBNB can be cheaper. The moment professionals start to get involved is the moment the law needs to be careful that professionals aren't using AirBNB to skirt regulations.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's definitely killing it, that's for sure - owns none of them, simply partners with old, small apt complex owners that have extra units for rent. Spends all his time traveling the world while his "business partner" takes care of cleaning and maintenance.

If he owns nothing and provides so little value, I would bet its only a matter of time until he is cut out of the pie.

Seems like he manages the whole reservation process and guest back and forth for a large number of properties. That's a large part of what established property managers do.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#124
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, like Uber, for customers it is a massive improvement over the alternative. I am taking my family to Atlanta next week for my son's birthday. Using AirBNB (or equivalent service) saved me well over $1500 for the trip - we would have needed three hotel rooms but rented a house instead. As an added bonus, instead of all that money going to a large corporation, it will go to an individual. The level of myopia he…

> Using AirBNB (or equivalent service) saved me well over $1500 for the trip - we would have needed three hotel rooms but rented a house instead. Travel and entertainment is not one of life's necessities. It doesn't outweigh the negative impact of airbnb. > As an added bonus, instead of all that money going to a large corporation, it will go to an individual. Why in the world does that matter at all? Are you saying t…

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Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#125
post #17

Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. It's a problem. None of this is a surprise, so much so that AirBnB seems to be aware of this and is acting in a way that's, at best, ethically challenged and, at worst, illegal eg deleting listings before giving data to the state of NY that "shows" most hosts only have one unit [1]. If people wa…

>Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. You're simply demonstrating NIMBYism. You get to stay in one of the most geographically desirable locations in the world and in order to pay lower rent you want to prevent others who live in much less geographically desirable places from renting units in your locale so that they can get to enjo…

>You're simply demonstrating NIMBYism.

I signed a 12 month rental agreement for an apartment in Reykjavik in 2015. About a month after I moved in, the apartment above me was sold to an ABnBer, and for the rest of the year I had a rotating troop of loud holidayers cycling through. I took to sleeping with earplugs every night, and still often was kept up until 1 or 2 on a weeknight. Needless to say, I moved the second the contract expired.

You can't persuade AirBnB users to give a shit about the noise they are causing, because they're going to be gone in 2 weeks. They don't care if the rest of the apartment hates them. It was toxic behavior that lowered the value of all the other apartments, and it harmed my quality of life quite severely.

But here's the important bit. This problem is not like someone buying a house near an airport and then complaining about the noise. Apartments become AirBnB rentals very suddenly, with no warning. There's nothing you can do to plan or defend against it, and it can happen to anyone. It's life ruining stuff, it harms your sleep, it harms your property investments, it increases your building maintenance costs and it increases your rental costs[1], and it happens randomly out of the blue.

It's an approach used by a lot of companies that I've started to think of as "societal strip mining". AirBnB is making it's money by offloading costs of business that it should rightfully pay itself to random other people around it, and pocketing the difference.

A newly created hotel in the middle of an otherwise quiet suburb would be required to soundproof it's premises and build parking under the site for it's customers. AirBnB apartments ignore soundproofing and create a system that encourages their customers to fight the locals for street parking (AirBnB customers usually win, because they're not on a 9-5 work schedule). It's no different to Uber saying "local regulations are not our problem, so we're not going to pay for cameras in Uber vehicles, and we're not going to safety check the vehicles every 3 months either. Whether our drivers do these things or not is between them and the government". BAM, fleet maintenance costs drop to zero, giving them a competitive edge against local taxi companies. Every now and again someone gets brutally raped or a car goes off a bridge as a result of pressuring their drivers to bypass regulations, but Uber isn't the one that has to pay.

I'm not impressed by this NIMBYism argument. AirBnB is taking the piss. They've had every opportunity to be a responsible business and work to support the tourism boom in Iceland in a positive manner, and instead they've made the lives of locals a lot harder and more expensive than it need be in the name of a quick buck. I for one will embrace with open arms any legislation which will shut them out of my city.

[1] 44% of Reykjaviks rental market is now listen on AirBnB, up from 23.5% 12 months ago, the average cost of rent has increase ~$1000USD per month in two years.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#126
post #17

Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. It's a problem. None of this is a surprise, so much so that AirBnB seems to be aware of this and is acting in a way that's, at best, ethically challenged and, at worst, illegal eg deleting listings before giving data to the state of NY that "shows" most hosts only have one unit [1]. If people wa…

>Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. You're simply demonstrating NIMBYism. You get to stay in one of the most geographically desirable locations in the world and in order to pay lower rent you want to prevent others who live in much less geographically desirable places from renting units in your locale so that they can get to enjo…

Who says it's only about rent? People who live in a place for only a few nights in general behave very different than where they live for a longer time.

I live in a > 100 year old building with bad acoustic insulation with 10 small apartments in it. For some time, the tenant above rented his apartment via AirBnB which was totally annoying and I'm really happy it stopped.

I'm mostly talking about loud noise in the middle of the night, disturbing all the other tenants. Be it coming home drunk at 4am and puking in the stair case, having lots of parties, shouting, door slamming, etc.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#127

'Our members own seven apartments on average, they are not big companies' Amazing how people live in distorted realities. To the vast majority of the population, owning seven apartments definitely puts you into 'big company' territory. Plus not being 'big' doesn't mean you get any exemptions.

If you own seven apartments with an average rent of $1k, your yearly revenue (not profit!) is $84,000. That's microscopic by any reasonable standard of company size.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#128
post #26
post #17

Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. It's a problem. None of this is a surprise, so much so that AirBnB seems to be aware of this and is acting in a way that's, at best, ethically challenged and, at worst, illegal eg deleting listings before giving data to the state of NY that "shows" most hosts only have one unit [1]. If people wa…

Why is it a problem, or what problems has it been causing in NYC? I understand the legality is questionable but I don't know why the laws exist in the first place.

The things people do when staying in an Airbnb are different than if they lived there as a resident.

Case in point, I rented one once to try it out. It was supposedly non smoking.

The entire place reeked of cigarettes. Upon complaining to the owner, she said she had clear rules but the previous guests had been over smoking, doing drugs, the stripper they brought over wrote all over the mirror in red lipstick, etc.

Now picture a situation where you live in a building that you picked because it seemed generally safe, quiet, etc. and seemed to have a certain kind of resident that you felt comfortable living with.

That all goes out the window when a significant chunk of your building becomes a nightly revolving door.

I'm not going to comment on the rent or housing issues. However there are plenty of reasons why people who live somewhere might be upset to see their building turn into such a place.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, somebody who gets it. "But my neighbors are complaining!" has somehow trumped "It's my property." in the modern age. If neighbors don't like what their neighborhood is becoming, they should move. Aside from homeowners group contracts, a person should be able to do as they wish with what they own. I'd bet that's the feeling of a good majority of people on this site regarding computer equipment and personal…

False equivalence. Unlike with personal electronics, real estate typically does not exist in a bubble and affects lives of other people living nearby. Both you and your neighbours would be affected by noise or lack of trash disposal. If the people in the flat upstairs would flood their flat, the flats below would be flooded and damaged too. If your neighbours don't like what their neighbourhood is becoming - they hav…

So IMO what you are referring to is a difference between urban and suburban/rural. Where I live, properties are well separated, and multi-tenant apartments and condos already have rules for things like this. As I'm sure you are aware, in an apartment or condo situation, you do not really own anything outside the drywall. I am speaking primarily about where I have the most knowledge: single family homes.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#130
post #17

Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. It's a problem. None of this is a surprise, so much so that AirBnB seems to be aware of this and is acting in a way that's, at best, ethically challenged and, at worst, illegal eg deleting listings before giving data to the state of NY that "shows" most hosts only have one unit [1]. If people wa…

>Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. You're simply demonstrating NIMBYism. You get to stay in one of the most geographically desirable locations in the world and in order to pay lower rent you want to prevent others who live in much less geographically desirable places from renting units in your locale so that they can get to enjo…

Wow NIMBYISM extends to people who don't want to live in hotels now.
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