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Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

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Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#51

Post by 3pt14159 »

Look, we have a couple problems: low interest rates, large variance in productivity / earnings, really shitty hotels because they're operating on old-world assumptions.

One under appreciated thing about apps like Uber and AirBnb is the star rating system. I know I'm a five star tenant. I know I never shit in the sink. I know I never leave a bunch of condoms or cigar butts all over the balcony or hotel room. But the hotel doesn't know that. They need to steam clean the sheets and install super-fat-person-proof toilets. And elevators for the disabled. And a hotel room with a stove and usable fridge? Hah! Only two times have I had that and one was in a room that cost $10k a week (don't ask, I was the +1).

Then it comes to AirBnb and global housing stock. Someone like me who is currently in Kiev in an AirBnb is always going to be able to out-spend a local. The key is to align incentives. I literally would not have come to Kiev if they'd banned AirBnb. I would have gone back to Lithuania (love Vilnius) or to Turkey or Estonia. With the drive to pull in tourist money going on worldwide why should cities ban AirBnb (or Uber for that matter)?

"Because it's driving up rents!"

Ok, so let's solve that problem. I have no issue with cities imposing a 30% tax on AirBnbs and using the income to build up the housing stock for locals. They should do this, it makes perfect sense.

"Because AirBnbers are loud and disruptive!"

Make hosts responsible for noise complaint fines and pretty quick loud tenants are going to get bad ratings.

"Because I want community, not a bunch of transient AirBnbers that don't even speak the local language!"

If it is getting really, really bad, (say 20% or higher of housing stock in a community) maybe scale up the taxes to combat this. But let's not miss the positives either. I've met a number of cool people both hosting them in my place just before traveling or by interacting with them in areas I never would have been in had I been staying in a hotel.

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water and all that.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#52

Post by cjalmeida »

jmcgough wrote: post #38
choxi wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a problem, or what problems has it been causing in NYC? I understand the legality is questionable but I don't know why the laws exist in the first place.

Because it further reduces the number of homes available for people to actually live (which is why we have zoning laws), which inflates rent/housing prices. This forces the bottom rung out of the city, because they can't afford to live there, and now minimum wage jobs (which we need to run the services people want) can't be filled, artists and musicians disappear, and the city becomes a place only for tourists and th…

How's that different than what's being going on NYC for the past 30 years or so? Gentrification is a thing, Airbnb or not.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#53

Post by user5994461 »

kasey_junk wrote: post #8
thisisit wrote: post #3

Is this surprising at all? Most "sharing" apps are now overrun by professionals in their field. The apps help the professional (or company) achieve zero cost customer acquisition cost. In case the apps do catch up, these guys end up being "promoted" because they are a good fit. The pros make for much better "sales target" for these sharing apps.

It's not zero cost it's fixed cost as they pay airbnb for it. But that's still a good deal as customer acquisition is tricky.

They have about 20% comission, plus another 5-10 if you pay in a foreign currency.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#54

Post by brandur »

snogglethorpe wrote: post #40
woah wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supply is very fixed? Most of the cities that you read about having a "rent crisis" also have a very aggressive contingent of anti-housing construction folks.

That, presumably, is one reason supply is restricted ("fixed"), along with other restrictive laws, like height or density limits, forced parking minimums, etc. Another contributor is poor transportation infrastructure, which limits peoples' flexibility, creating more pressure on housing near train lines and stations, etc.

> That, presumably, is one reason supply is restricted ("fixed")

(I'm the grandparent.) Yes, this. I'm all for new construction to improve supply and a streamlined bureaucratic process so that it can happen more quickly.

Practically speaking though, you can look at any city that's had a problem with AirBnB (Berlin, San Francisco, New York, Barcelona, etc. — pretty much anywhere desirable to visit) and new stock isn't coming online anywhere close to quickly enough to counteract the market forces introduced by AirBnB. As it stands today, building is a very slow process, and it's likely to remain that way for the foreseeable future.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#55

Post by reza_n »

choxi wrote: post #26
cletus wrote: post #17

Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. It's a problem. None of this is a surprise, so much so that AirBnB seems to be aware of this and is acting in a way that's, at best, ethically challenged and, at worst, illegal eg deleting listings before giving data to the state of NY that "shows" most hosts only have one unit [1]. If people wa…

Why is it a problem, or what problems has it been causing in NYC? I understand the legality is questionable but I don't know why the laws exist in the first place.

It converts long term housing stock into short term housing, which benefits tourists with cheaper prices and increases the price for residents since both are competing for the same units. Basically, tourists are getting a free ride on the backs of residents. Its always been the other way around, tourists pay extra taxes and fees which go back to the city (and residents) and entrepreneurs build hotels which once again benefit the city (and residents). Can't think of many arguments where tourists should be given cheaper housing rights over residents.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#56

Post by coldtea »

user5994461 wrote: post #49
coldtea wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know about NYC, but for one, it raises the rents, because hordes of tourists are more lucrative than locals renting long term.

What makes you think that?

The experience of it happening in certain places where I live.

Lots of nice places are now rented in AirBnB for what amounts to their old monthly rent but now asked for for a weekly rental or less.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#57

Post by throwaway413 »

sisyphusprotege wrote: post #35
throwaway413 wrote: post #19

The last Airbnb I rented was from a dude managing 28 other properties, all listed on Airbnb.

That's the kind of pluck and industriousness that made this country great.

He's definitely killing it, that's for sure - owns none of them, simply partners with old, small apt complex owners that have extra units for rent. Spends all his time traveling the world while his "business partner" takes care of cleaning and maintenance.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#58

Post by jmcgough »

cjalmeida wrote: post #52
jmcgough wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it further reduces the number of homes available for people to actually live (which is why we have zoning laws), which inflates rent/housing prices. This forces the bottom rung out of the city, because they can't afford to live there, and now minimum wage jobs (which we need to run the services people want) can't be filled, artists and musicians disappear, and the city becomes a place only for tourists and th…

How's that different than what's being going on NYC for the past 30 years or so? Gentrification is a thing, Airbnb or not.

It accelerates it by further decreasing housing supply. The housing problems of NYC are complex and challenging, and AirBNB is just a part of that.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#59

Post by pmiller2 »

jmcgough wrote: post #38
choxi wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a problem, or what problems has it been causing in NYC? I understand the legality is questionable but I don't know why the laws exist in the first place.

Because it further reduces the number of homes available for people to actually live (which is why we have zoning laws), which inflates rent/housing prices. This forces the bottom rung out of the city, because they can't afford to live there, and now minimum wage jobs (which we need to run the services people want) can't be filled, artists and musicians disappear, and the city becomes a place only for tourists and th…

Not only that, but AirBnB prices for "whole apartment/house" listings are often not less than the price of a decent hotel room in the area! This makes them worse than useless in my view, except possibly for getting a last-minute accommodation.

Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords

#60

Post by IanDrake »

According to this article I'm a professional landlord because I have more than one property on airbnb?

I think that's a huge leap and was done to inflate numbers to re-enforce their point, which would otherwise be poorly made by a meaningful statistic.

To be a professional landlord you need at least 20 properties. That is typically the minimum number of properties to provide a livable income.

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