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There Have Always Existed People Who’ve Simply Wanted to Be Alone

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Re: There Have Always Existed People Who’ve Simply Wanted to Be Alone

#81

Post by wging »

drdeadringer wrote: post #79
nabla9 wrote: post #42

Being alone and hiking and camping in the wilderness without human contact for longer period can be amazing experience. There can be initial anxiety and intense desire to go back after romance goes away and your internal shit comes to light. When there is constant need for do chores to survive but also free time and no human contact, no books, radio or music, mind gradually settles into itself. It's like coming from…

Your mention of going from bright light to a dark room is literally my current working life. I shoot cameras for image quality, which often necessitates a dark room. I've come to prefer the room dark even when I'm not shooting. The past few weeks of where I live, the outdoors has been rather bright... so leaving the lab room dark has become even more attractive. About two months ago I went to the eye doctor with the…

Very interesting story. Also it's mildly weird to see such a correct/appropriate use of the word 'literally'.

Re: There Have Always Existed People Who’ve Simply Wanted to Be Alone

#82

Post by drdeadringer »

c3534l wrote: post #19
white-flame wrote: post #15

It baffles me that people think it's so shockingly outlandish that there are people who don't reactionarily buy into the tribalistic pressures around us to simply act like everyone else. Humanity is not homogeneous, yet some notions like these are always projected out to be considered an immutable, inescapable constant. I can only guess that's that same fear of being different shining through. I presume that on sites…

I mean, it's not exactly an easy life. You seem to give up a lot just to not see people sometimes.

I find that regulating when and how I see people helps.

I can be social, personable, agreeable, all that jazz. But like any given normal introvert, I need the recharge by myself and alone. For how long? Of course that depends. For me, I'll arrive to a party acceptably early [and gladly help out or whatever] or right on time as expected, and leave in classic Dr Who style when very few people notice; "happy to come, happy to go" and don't overstay my welcome.

I feel like I am aware of what I am "missing out on not to see people sometimes". Chitchat, small talk, how's it going, your troubles, my troubles. However, good fences do actually make good neighbors. I've gotten great help from my neighbors and such, with about as much effort put in by either of us as described by Robert Frost, and I couldn't be more grateful.

Re: There Have Always Existed People Who’ve Simply Wanted to Be Alone

#83

Post by tpeo »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #57

The title IMO is far more interesting and thought provoking than the actual story. So this guy lived in the woods somewhat near people, and stole to get by... I've personally always been fascinated by the topic as I have met several hermit monks, have a friend who lived as one for half a year, and contemplated it for myself. The history of religious asceticism and hermits is quite interesting, and many of history's m…

I've seen a similar usage of the expression "social creatures" ("social animals") before, and it bothers me. Firstly, because I've known several loners who would take issue with what's being suggested.

But secondly, because the expression originally implied nothing of the sort, and still doesn't in biological jargon (which I believe is where it is/was most commonly used).

It was Aristotle who first used the expression "ζῷον πολιτικόν", and he used it to mean that humans exist in large ordered agglomerations as a matter of fact [0]. He also included bees and ants among the "political animals", but I don't think he ever said anything about any of them wanting company for it's own sake. And, at least in the beginning of his Politics, neither does he suggest that humans want it for it's own sake, either. Biologists, on the other hand, still use that expression with a meaning similar to that of Aristotle (animals who happen to live together), while including other groups [1].

Now, this wouldn't be a problem if in common language these expressions merely meant something else than what they do in biology, or what they mean in Aristotelian exegesis. That would be fine. But instead it seems as if the usage in common language relies on the usage in learned contexts to do a little bit of semantic sleight-of-hand, and suggest something else than what was originally meant e.g. "Humans have an inherent need for company: Biologists say we're 'social animals'".

Otherwise, the statement would have no authority behind it in common language. Instead, it would be just an unfounded assertion. In fact, that there are people who disagree with it already suggests that it is, at least, ill-founded. These are the people saying "No, we don't". But instead, readers are nudged by the usage in learned contexts to take it for granted, without further justification.

Either way, it's a bit like when someone conflates term "observer", as it is used in physics, with the term as it is used in common language to suggest that people can walk through walls if they wish hard enough.

[0] http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_animal

Re: There Have Always Existed People Who’ve Simply Wanted to Be Alone

#84

Post by ZenoArrow »

smallnamespace wrote: post #60
syshum wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea that "Humans are social creatures" is spread by the part of humanity that are social creatures and us introverts are not normally around to challenge that assertion. While undoubtedly there are many many humans that desire to socialize and be around other humans, there are many of us that find socialization less enjoyable. So while I personally have benefited from periods of social interaction, I'd m…

Being social and being sociable often conflated. Every time you buy something from Amazon, drink tap water, or live in a dwelling that you didn't build yourself, you are being a social creature. Few animals are capable of interacting in these highly complicated and choreographed ways.

> "Every time you buy something from Amazon, drink tap water, or live in a dwelling that you didn't build yourself, you are being a social creature."

I'd say that's stretching the definition of social beyond the breaking point. Technically those interactions involve other humans, but none that you engage with directly. It's direct human interaction that is the key to whether something is 'social' or not IMO.

Re: There Have Always Existed People Who’ve Simply Wanted to Be Alone

#85

Post by digi_owl »

tray5 wrote: post #56
roceasta wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>socialization doesn't provide that reward that it does for most other people Exactly. If one doesn't get the reward then it's too easy to commit errors and not worth the effort to correct them. However I do think 'spergs' have a better knowledge of the rules than normies. Just as a native speaker doesn't need to know grammar in order to speak correctly, so normies don't need to know the rules of social interaction.

>However I do think 'spergs' have a better knowledge of the rules than normies. You're absolutely right. It's intuition for neurotypical people, it's just something they get. For aspies socialization is about learning all the hidden rules that come naturally to others. But I do admit that knowing the rules and applying them in real time is a very, very difficult thing to do. It gets exhausting quick, and if this was…

Thing about said rules are that they are not fixed, they are fluid based on the ongoing exchange within the peer group.

Thus all rules come with a ton of exceptions.

Re: There Have Always Existed People Who’ve Simply Wanted to Be Alone

#86

Post by ZenoArrow »

woodandsteel wrote: post #44
grabcocque wrote: post #14

The idea of introverts and extraverts being distinct groups of people with completely different neurological responses to social situations is a largely false one, created by self-help woo merchants to unhelpfully pathologise the feeling that EVERYONE has from time to time that they want to be left the fuck alone. You know what? It's a normal, neurotypical part of life as a homo sapiens to want to be by yourself some…

>The idea of introverts and extraverts being distinct groups of people with completely different neurological responses to social situations is a largely false one Are you saying it is possible there are neurological differences, but it hasn't been proven? Or are you saying it has been proven that there are no neurological differences? I could be wrong, but my best guess is that you are not familiar with this area of…

> "Or are you saying it has been proven that there are no neurological differences?"

Beware of confirmation bias. If you've convinced yourself something exists, and discover some patterns in data that line up with previous beliefs, that will be classed as evidence even without understanding what those patterns truly represent.

Re: There Have Always Existed People Who’ve Simply Wanted to Be Alone

#87

Post by avenoir »

sizzzzlerz wrote: post #30
dr_bloodmoney wrote: post #12

I read about this man when the story first broke and found it extremely fascinating. I can relate to wanting to be alone and living an isolated existence. I love being in nature, away from the world and have often thought about pursuing such an existence permanently. But I just cannot comprehend his methods. Move to Alaska. Learn to hunt. Carve out a place for yourself somewhere. What he did tells me he was just insa…

Moving to Alaska doesn't work either. See Chris McCandless. Of course, where he chose to live (and, eventually, die) didn't have nearby houses to steal from. He just thought he could live off the land. In Alaska. In winter. Without the necessary tools or skills. That, my friend, is truly nuts.

I think Richard Proenneke is a better example of someone who survived in the vastness of Alaskan wilderness for decades. His survival story is truly fascinating and level-headed compared to McCandless who was a hippie vagabond more than anything else.

Re: There Have Always Existed People Who’ve Simply Wanted to Be Alone

#88

Post by avenoir »

nerdponx wrote: post #76
nabla9 wrote: post #42

Being alone and hiking and camping in the wilderness without human contact for longer period can be amazing experience. There can be initial anxiety and intense desire to go back after romance goes away and your internal shit comes to light. When there is constant need for do chores to survive but also free time and no human contact, no books, radio or music, mind gradually settles into itself. It's like coming from…

Where do you learn the outdoor and craftmanship skills you'd need to survive on your own in the woods? Lots of backpacking trips with more experienced people?

YouTube. There are a lot of survivalists channels with plethora of information about building shelters, starting fires, finding wild edibles, cooking and even trapping. I'm not a survivalist, but as someone who lives in Colorado and plays in the Rockies almost every week knowing how to survive becomes pretty essential. Watching videos and trying things out on my outings is how i got started. Another fun thing you can do while you're out alone is bring a wild edibles identification guide of some sort for your area. Keeps you occupied and informs you about some pretty neat stuff growing around your camp.

Re: There Have Always Existed People Who’ve Simply Wanted to Be Alone

#89

Post by aleksandrm »

nerdponx wrote: post #76
nabla9 wrote: post #42

Being alone and hiking and camping in the wilderness without human contact for longer period can be amazing experience. There can be initial anxiety and intense desire to go back after romance goes away and your internal shit comes to light. When there is constant need for do chores to survive but also free time and no human contact, no books, radio or music, mind gradually settles into itself. It's like coming from…

Where do you learn the outdoor and craftmanship skills you'd need to survive on your own in the woods? Lots of backpacking trips with more experienced people?

There are plenty of resources on youtube, i found Primitive Technology channel quite enjoyable to watch.

Re: There Have Always Existed People Who’ve Simply Wanted to Be Alone

#90

Post by 131012 »

sseagull wrote: post #23
grabcocque wrote: post #14

The idea of introverts and extraverts being distinct groups of people with completely different neurological responses to social situations is a largely false one, created by self-help woo merchants to unhelpfully pathologise the feeling that EVERYONE has from time to time that they want to be left the fuck alone. You know what? It's a normal, neurotypical part of life as a homo sapiens to want to be by yourself some…

> The idea of introverts and extraverts being distinct groups of people with completely different neurological responses to social situations is a largely false one Why would you say that? Even perusing the wikipedia article shows that there is at least some evidence for a biological basis, and that it is being researched. Maybe it's not up to your standards, but it's far from being settled as a bunch of 'woo' https:…

Have you read the article? It defends the original position you quote, especially in the case of jungian psychology and myer-briggs model.

Everytime you hear someone saying you can divide the world in two separate categories, you can know that the vision it creates is blurry at best. Juste like saying pi = 2. It's technically not wrong, but a rather useless info.

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