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ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

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Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#151

Post by CydeWeys »

kentf wrote: post #11

So many negative comments for a Saturday. This is a marvel of engineering and deserves a celebration. Humbled by our ability to re-invent more and more. Well done to all involved.

This might be a little bit premature. I'd want to see broad commercial success before celebrating it as a marvel of engineering.

Systems like this have been invented repeatedly throughout the decades, but they never succeeded for one reason or another. The problem isn't in coming up with the concept (or, now, making animated 3D renderings), it's in making it actually work well.

This, incidentally, is why so many of us are so ecstatic about SpaceX -- because they've made something amazing that actually works.

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#152

Post by CydeWeys »

nneonneo wrote: post #112

The resulting internal transportation network enabled by this system resembles a public transit tramway system more than it resembles a traditional elevator system - and I'm willing to bet that isn't accidental. As skyscrapers become bigger and more ubiquitous, it seems natural that their internal transit systems would get correspondingly more complex, and borrowing from public transit seems like a perfectly natural…

I had a chance recently to ask the famous architect David Adjaye what new upcoming technology he thought would change architecture in the coming years, like how steel beams and reinforced concrete allowed the skyscraper innovation from the last century, and his answer was immediate: 3D elevator systems.

Apparently traditional linear elevator systems are really limiting as far as what can be accomplished with skyscrapers, to the point that a famous architect sees fully flexible 3D people mover systems inside a building as being the next big innovation to radically change what cities look like.

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#153

Post by CydeWeys »

mschuster91 wrote: post #43
samstave wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever been in an elevator during a power outage?

No problem either - do it like on freefall towers or on other park attractions, where eddy current brakes, fully passive, are employed as safety mechanism.

Plus hopefully battery banks (which you'll likely want on the elevators anyway to be able to store energy from regenerative braking) to power the car long enough to come to a rest where the passengers can get out in the event of a power outage.

There's going to be several layers of safeguards, like there are with current elevators.

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#154

Post by ChuckMcM »

ant6n wrote: post #148
ChuckMcM wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on whether or not the car can 'tilt' while it is moving sideways (I know they don't show it doing so). If it can then any amount of acceleration can be presented as 'up' and 'down' force to the occupants much like a plane.

Well, tilting itself involves acceleration, which will be perceived differently in different parts of the cabin... So there are still and issues.

When combined with the acceleration they are indistinguishable. I got a chance to ride in the full motion simulator at NASA Ames and it used this 'trick' to recenter itself after it had made a left or right motion. Inside you felt nothing, like the system was unmoving but outside it was moving the flight pod back to the center of motion so that it had maximum reach for the next maneuver.

I'm sure the TK folks could manage it. The trick is that the 'tilt' of the car on the linear motor would add an additional degree of freedom to deal with. And yet it would be expensive but they seem to have already crossed that bridge :-)

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#155

Post by christoph »

anoother wrote: post #86
danielvf wrote: post #77

The big benefit is that you get more than one elevator per shaft. For skyscrapers the amount of floor space wasted by elevators grows exponentially by the number of floors. Say you have a 5 story building that needs a one shaft elevator. 5 floors tiles 100 sqft per floor is 500 sqft of wasted shaft space. Then say you have a 10 story building that needs two shafts. Now you are wasting 10 floors times two shafts or 2,…

Paternosters. You say terrifying, I say fun. There's one in Leicester University (not the only one in the UK, I'm sure). Really not that dangerous, with a cable near the top of each aperture that triggers a stop if it's touched.

There's one in the library at Essex University as well - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvn06yQIb9o

I'm glad they still have it, I was nervous when I searched that I would find out it had been ripped out since I was last there.

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#156

Post by jjoe »

This might read a bit odd and tangential but I cringe every time I get into a ThyssenKrupp elevator. Thyssen and Krupp were huge fans of Hitler and the Nazis. The two families donated large sums of money to their cause. They both benefited from Hitler's support and promoted the use of forced labor. ThyssenKrupp is largely seen as a Hitler firm in many circles.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThyssenKrupp

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krupp

[2] http://spartacus-educational.com/GERthyssen.htm

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#157

Post by stcredzero »

pimlottc wrote: post #145
stcredzero wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SF garage my fiancee parks in has this thing made from an industrial belt, with steps bolted onto it. I think there are quite a few of those in Stuttgart as well, though they are being fazed out. It's very efficient, but not for ze stupits!

Out of curiosity, where in SF? I'd be interested to see one.

The parking garage near the corner of Bush and Mason.

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#158

Post by e12e »

smoyer wrote: post #118
danielvf wrote: post #77

The big benefit is that you get more than one elevator per shaft. For skyscrapers the amount of floor space wasted by elevators grows exponentially by the number of floors. Say you have a 5 story building that needs a one shaft elevator. 5 floors tiles 100 sqft per floor is 500 sqft of wasted shaft space. Then say you have a 10 story building that needs two shafts. Now you are wasting 10 floors times two shafts or 2,…

I rode one of those "terrifying" elevators in the '90s in Frankfurt DE and it wasn't actually scary. I could in fact be dangerous but people are pretty smart about not being stupid near them. I will admit that we taped a piece of paper to the floor to make sure the cabin (which was completely carpeted) didn't flip over at the top before we rode it the whole way around.

Could you expand on your "safety paper"? Was it taped to the top floor, as a signal to get out?

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#159

Post by closeparen »

nneonneo wrote: post #112

The resulting internal transportation network enabled by this system resembles a public transit tramway system more than it resembles a traditional elevator system - and I'm willing to bet that isn't accidental. As skyscrapers become bigger and more ubiquitous, it seems natural that their internal transit systems would get correspondingly more complex, and borrowing from public transit seems like a perfectly natural…

Interesting point. Buildings that are very large on the horizontal plane (like the Pentagon) have adopted systems of personal transport like bicycles and Segways. But I guess there's no reason why the elevator model shouldn't work horizontally.

Still, elevators in general are more like ridesharing than public transit: they move according to the requests they receive in real time (with some central planning influence), rather than on a schedule set by committee months or years prior.

Re: ThyssenKrupp Multi – world’s first rope-free elevator [video]

#160

Post by mjmasn »

e12e wrote: post #158
smoyer wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rode one of those "terrifying" elevators in the '90s in Frankfurt DE and it wasn't actually scary. I could in fact be dangerous but people are pretty smart about not being stupid near them. I will admit that we taped a piece of paper to the floor to make sure the cabin (which was completely carpeted) didn't flip over at the top before we rode it the whole way around.

Could you expand on your "safety paper"? Was it taped to the top floor, as a signal to get out?

Took me a while to parse but I think he means they taped paper to the floor, then observed that the paper was still on the floor (as opposed to the ceiling) after the elevator looped around. The entire elevator was carpeted so it wasn't obvious if this would be the case or if indeed the elevator flipped over before beginning its descent.
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