Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#11

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 5:24 PM UTC

danharaj wrote: post #5

devoply wrote: post #4

This article does not take into account quantum phenomenon. It's possible that instead of being limited by the speed of light transmissions, such a system uses quantum phenomenon for communication. Which then would make the whole argument that this article makes invalid. It's based on the premise that life would be based on the same sort of physics as life on Earth... which does not make sense as such life if it exis…

There are no quantum effects that allow superluminal communication of information.

[deleted]

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#12

Post by kanzure » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 5:25 PM UTC

zipwitch wrote: post #9

bitL wrote: post #2

We still don't know if the Universe itself isn't a living organism with us playing the role of tiny viruses that require intelligence/consciousness to fulfill certain tasks, like what gut bacteria does for us.

I'm no expert on xenobiology, but it seems like in our search for life we're always looking for life like Earth's. Are we even looking for life at much different scales of size or time?

> Are we even looking for life at much different scales of size or time?

Yes, see: http://www.xenology.info/Xeno.htm

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#13

Post by DonaldPShimoda » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 5:28 PM UTC

zipwitch wrote: post #9

bitL wrote: post #2

We still don't know if the Universe itself isn't a living organism with us playing the role of tiny viruses that require intelligence/consciousness to fulfill certain tasks, like what gut bacteria does for us.

I'm no expert on xenobiology, but it seems like in our search for life we're always looking for life like Earth's. Are we even looking for life at much different scales of size or time?

No, because we have no idea what the bounds are. We don't know what dissimilar life could possibly look like.

If I send you to a junk yard and say "Find my old microwave" can you do it? You'll probably start by looking for things that look like what you think a microwave looks like, right? But what if mine looks different?

We know life is probably somewhat rare in the universe, at least compared to the raw number of planets. But we know that Earth ticks all the right boxes to generate life, despite that adversity. So we look for things like Earth because it's more likely to be productive than a blind search with no bounds.

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#14

Post by paradite » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 5:30 PM UTC

banachtarski wrote: post #7

bitL wrote: post #2

We still don't know if the Universe itself isn't a living organism with us playing the role of tiny viruses that require intelligence/consciousness to fulfill certain tasks, like what gut bacteria does for us.

We do. If you bothered to read the article, it makes a point that the communication speed between the components would be slow enough (even at light speed signaling) that the age of the universe would not have permitted sufficient time for such an organism to evolve and do anything.

Well, maybe the age of universe is indeed "too short" for it to do anything useful yet? Your argument seems to be supporting the idea that the universe is like a baby who is still too young to do anything.

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#15

Post by Retra » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 5:35 PM UTC

devoply wrote: post #4

This article does not take into account quantum phenomenon. It's possible that instead of being limited by the speed of light transmissions, such a system uses quantum phenomenon for communication. Which then would make the whole argument that this article makes invalid. It's based on the premise that life would be based on the same sort of physics as life on Earth... which does not make sense as such life if it exis…

All communication relies on quantum phenomenon. The universe is a big mess of quantum phenomenon. It's not magic that lets you violate the laws of physics, it is the laws of physics.

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#16

Post by devoply » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 5:38 PM UTC

Retra wrote: post #15

devoply wrote: post #4

This article does not take into account quantum phenomenon. It's possible that instead of being limited by the speed of light transmissions, such a system uses quantum phenomenon for communication. Which then would make the whole argument that this article makes invalid. It's based on the premise that life would be based on the same sort of physics as life on Earth... which does not make sense as such life if it exis…

All communication relies on quantum phenomenon. The universe is a big mess of quantum phenomenon. It's not magic that lets you violate the laws of physics, it is the laws of physics.

It's funny with all the downvotes, first I never said that anything violated the laws of physics, I said that they don't follow the physics as life on earth. Second, there are many downvotes, but no actual evidence of what I said being wrong. I feel as if I am arguing with self-reassured people.

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#17

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 5:38 PM UTC

Retra wrote: post #15

devoply wrote: post #4

This article does not take into account quantum phenomenon. It's possible that instead of being limited by the speed of light transmissions, such a system uses quantum phenomenon for communication. Which then would make the whole argument that this article makes invalid. It's based on the premise that life would be based on the same sort of physics as life on Earth... which does not make sense as such life if it exis…

All communication relies on quantum phenomenon. The universe is a big mess of quantum phenomenon. It's not magic that lets you violate the laws of physics, it is the laws of physics.

[deleted]

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#18

Post by bitL » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

banachtarski wrote: post #7

bitL wrote: post #2

We still don't know if the Universe itself isn't a living organism with us playing the role of tiny viruses that require intelligence/consciousness to fulfill certain tasks, like what gut bacteria does for us.

We do. If you bothered to read the article, it makes a point that the communication speed between the components would be slow enough (even at light speed signaling) that the age of the universe would not have permitted sufficient time for such an organism to evolve and do anything.

Universe is full of particles with quantum entanglement; those can be your "immediate" messengers of information. But anyway, there are way too many assumptions in your objections about the character of such life and its requirements, as well as in the article itself. We still don't know the fabrics of the Universe, just some rough approximations in certain areas with known confidence; there likely are many surprises awaiting us in the future (like discovery of radioactivity etc. in the past).

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#19

Post by axiom92 » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

devoply wrote: post #16

Retra wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All communication relies on quantum phenomenon. The universe is a big mess of quantum phenomenon. It's not magic that lets you violate the laws of physics, it is the laws of physics.

It's funny with all the downvotes, first I never said that anything violated the laws of physics, I said that they don't follow the physics as life on earth. Second, there are many downvotes, but no actual evidence of what I said being wrong. I feel as if I am arguing with self-reassured people.

The burden of proof lies on you, not 'them'. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#20

Post by Retra » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

devoply wrote: post #16

Retra wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All communication relies on quantum phenomenon. The universe is a big mess of quantum phenomenon. It's not magic that lets you violate the laws of physics, it is the laws of physics.

It's funny with all the downvotes, first I never said that anything violated the laws of physics, I said that they don't follow the physics as life on earth. Second, there are many downvotes, but no actual evidence of what I said being wrong. I feel as if I am arguing with self-reassured people.

You're arguing with a physicist.

There's no such thing as "quantum phenomenon" that is distinct from any other phenomena. All phenomena are quantum. You're using that word the same way any other woo-peddler uses it: to worship ignorance and preserve the 'majesty' of the unknown.