Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#461

Post by bradjohnson » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 11:55 PM UTC

wfunction wrote: post #426

KekDemaga wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at wealth globally, if GDP was evenly distributed every year everyone would get roughly ten thousand dollars. That's pretax, thus the total average spend per human being be in direct cash payments or via governmental programs should not exceed that number in a fair system. In western nations the poor see double that number on average in cash compensation, and more than triple that number when you include…

It seems like you are completely missing the point. This has little to do with economic inequality. The issue is not that this guy had a random product and raised its price. If this had been a car or an iPhone, we could not have cared less if he had been "greedy" and selling it for $1M/piece. The issue is that this is medicine we're talking about. People don't view healthcare and medicine like they view ordinary serv…

Please see this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14931661

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#462

Post by cvwright » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 11:59 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #459

wavegeek wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prosecutors don't charge people if they aren't fairly confident that the evidence will result in a conviction. Yes they do. They throw a huge array of charges, provable or now, at people with the intent to scare them. Punishing people for refusing to plead guilty should be a crime.

Example?

Aaron Swartz?

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#463

Post by velobro » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 11:59 PM UTC

fmihaila wrote: post #337

ptr_void wrote: post #263

He is live-streaming right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvArpDQHf-Y

Watching it right now and it's fascinating. He has just been explaining to a Daily News reporter why his company charges what it charges for the various drugs it sells. More people should watch this before they make up their mind. It's only a live stream now, I hope it's going to stay on YT after it's done. (They're now arguing about what he considers distorted coverage of him in the press.)

Oh give me a break. The guy comes off as charasmatic in a YouTube video so you want to ignore his act of fraud? (Yes, I realize raising drug prices isn't illegal. That isn't what he was convicted for)

You know who else was charasmatic and could get people to like him in light of all his actions? Adolf Hitler.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#464

Post by FireBeyond » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:11 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #26

swang wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prosecutors argued that Shkreli lied to investors in two hedge funds and the pharmaceutical company Retrophin, all of which he founded. Shkreli told investors he graduated from Columbia University, that his hedge fund was large and profitable, and that he had hired an auditor, they said. These were all lies, according to prosecutors. yeah seems like a great dude...

"but he had a nice twitch stream" is just about the most absurd defense of someone involved in large scale corporate fraud I have witnessed in a long time

Right. Ted Bundy was the picture of charisma, and charm, personality.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#465

Post by wfunction » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:13 AM UTC

bradjohnson wrote: post #461

wfunction wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you are completely missing the point. This has little to do with economic inequality. The issue is not that this guy had a random product and raised its price. If this had been a car or an iPhone, we could not have cared less if he had been "greedy" and selling it for $1M/piece. The issue is that this is medicine we're talking about. People don't view healthcare and medicine like they view ordinary serv…

Please see this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14931661

Retrophin was a company and not a drug, right? The comment is saying things like "Retrophin isn't a widely used drug" which is really confusing me and makes me think either I or the writer (or both) don't have any idea what he's talking about. I'm trying to make sense of it compared to what I'm reading from other sources and am completely failing because of this.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#466

Post by laughinghan » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:13 AM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #405

dgfgfdagasdfgfa wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shkreli seems to be trying to expose this hypocrisy, but the news loves their stories. It's hard to buy into this when he was directly profiting from this attempt to expose.

Why not both? What he's doing, creating outrage legally, is one of the most effective ways to create positive change that actually affects the whole industry. And hes making money too! Win-win? He committed early on to give financial aid to those that could not afford the new drug's price. His conscious is rather clean. I see it no different to what most private schools do - charge a huge sticker price then offer aid…

> Why not both?

Because doing so would kill people?

> He committed early on to give financial aid to those that could not afford the new drug's price.

Did he actually do this or just say he would? As has been noted by others through this thread, including by folks who like him, he's prone to lying.

Also, are you really claiming that people of all incomes have equal access to expensive private schools?

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#467

Post by trentmb » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:14 AM UTC

Sangermaine wrote: post #192

"It's not always about lying! Sometimes it's about being cruel to strangers just to enjoy their suffering!"

You have Wu-Tang to thank for that.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#468

Post by trentmb » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:15 AM UTC

burkaman wrote: post #368

MSM wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Trolling is lying Not at all, I think one of the most famous "troll" things he did was buy the master Wu-Tang album and threaten to destroy it so no one could ever hear the album. There's no lying or anything meant to "hurt" anyone there, but you can imagine that it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

Threatening to destroy it so nobody else can hear it is explicitly intended to hurt people who want to hear the album. If you don't mean to hurt anyone, by definition it isn't trolling. Maybe I'm stretching the meaning of lying, but I think it's dishonest to represent yourself as a patron of the arts, as the album was produced as a piece of art, when you're really bidding on it with the sole purpose of depriving othe…

Then go after Wu-Tang. They engendered this 'hurt'.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#469

Post by sintaxi » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:19 AM UTC

gizmo wrote: post #121

AJRF wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He raised the price of Daraprim in order to fund R&D to find alternative treatments as Daraprim caused some nasty side effects. It was free to any individual who wished to obtain it, with Martin footing the bill. The side effect of the price hike was the insurance companies has to pay more, not individuals. So no, one couldn't argue he hurt a lot of sick people.

1. There is no evidence of any R&D efforts. He did "market research", i.e. finding new drugs to acquire and hike the price on. 2. It was absolutely 100% not free to any individual who wished to obtain it. If you had no insurance you might (or might not) get it for free, but if you had lousy insurance you could get stuck with a 20% copay, which means you have to pay $18,000 out of pocket -per month-. Also, hospitals s…

I think you should start a pharmaceutical company to help these sick people.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#470

Post by CalChris » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:20 AM UTC

nprog wrote: post #425

CalChris wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fraud != stealing fraud wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain stealing take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it No, Shkreli didn't intend to steal their money since they gave it to him. However, he did in fact deceive them as to what he did with said money. So he was convicted of fraud .

Wire fraud (1343) is both inchoate and a specific intent crime. To be convicted, it doesn't matter if there was an actual loss, but must be shown that the defendant intended to defraud, that is that "[T]he purpose of the scheme 'must be to injure'" (US v Regent). This is also the 2nd Circuit, which has the most substantive case law on wire fraud in the US (Regent, Starr, McNally, D'Amato, Skilling, etc). I should add…

You might say that Shkreli was charged with willfully pissing someone off, but he was also tried and convicted in a jury trial in Federal court and then unlike some sad sack foot soldier in the drug wars that prosecutors use to juice their numbers, Shkreli had and has the means for a first class defense, a defense whose singular and most brilliant tactic was telling Shkreli to STFU already.

Yes, Shkreli is probably at best guilty of being guilty. But please don't mind me at all if I enjoy this feel good item just a little more than the usual story about someone being guilty of being poor.