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Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

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Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#361

Post by to_bpr »

Sangermaine wrote: post #110
enschlnd wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not kidding. He's not human garbage. It's not astounding that different people have different opinions at all. Your post suggests that you're very emotionally attached to your opinion, which is not good. Nor takes into consideration some basic premises which are necessary for people to understand one another.

>He's not human garbage. Yeah, but he is. Spare me the faux "logically objective" pose. There is a reason he's known as the "most hated man in America". His actions have earned him this reputation.

>There is a reason he's known as the "most hated man in America".

Because that title sells clicks, much like every other piece of hyperbolic clickbait spewed onto the internet these days?

If he truly is the most hated man in America, by fact, then it's simply further proof that Americans, as a collective entity, are willingly at the highest extremes of ignorance.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#362

Post by artursapek »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #287
bdcravens wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to OJ's recent parole that had nothing to do with the murder he was accused of committing. MSM, the previous victim's families, etc, seem to be conflating the two.

That's different, though. The goal of a parole suitability hearing is to determine whether an inmate poses an unreasonable risk of danger to society if released from prison. A data point like "this prisoner murdered some people" is very relevant to that determination.

Not that I think OJ is innocent, but that can't be treated as a "data point"; based on public record he did not murder anyone.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#363

Post by ZenoArrow »

Clubber wrote: post #283
ZenoArrow wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "That would be great if he wasn't one of many" You could say the same for almost any crime. Why should those who commit white-collar crime be allowed to continue without repercussions, whilst those who commit much smaller offences get jail time?

The problem is now Congress can sit back and do nothing for a few years regarding Pharma, since the masses and media will be satisfied with this. Nothing changes.

Correct me if I'm wrong... I thought this particular court case had very little to do with the pharmaceutical industry. Also, that's a bit of a stretch. It's not like the government has a 'white collar crime prosecutions quota', and the general public doesn't overlook wrongdoing if similar crimes have been prosecuted recently.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#364

Post by beagle3 »

zokier wrote: post #137
loeg wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory it had nothing to do with it, although it's not clear that the prosecution would have gone after him without that negative attention. Also, it had an effect on the juror pool.

Was it the nazis or soviets (or both) who made effectively everyone criminal so that they could then persecute them at will?

It's almost every country these days, see e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp... - which has a slightly clickbaity title, but worrying content.

But it seems Shkreli's transgressions are not of the "three felonies before breakfast" variety, but rather things that are indeed often prosecuted (though, it should be noted, as everyone wronged was made whole, it is likely that he would not have been prosecuted if he had not been in the media spotlight as a villain; other remarks here mentioned that the founding of Fedex had a similar fraud committed, for example).

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#366

Post by charlesdm »

wfo wrote: post #346
charlesdm wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. But thing is, they are not actually equal on specialised matters? I understand that it works when you're dealing with things like murder. That can be relatively clear. But how about hacking? Securities fraud? Money laundering? Tax fraud? These are all highly specialised issues that the average person knows nothing about. No average person, unless they have an interest in it, will be able to make a good call on…

These things can be (and are) explained. Trials that contain complex technical violations tend to take longer, sure. Judges, expert witnesses, lawyers all spend a huge amount of time learning about/explaining these issues. It's especially incumbent upon the prosecutor to explain complicated issues -- if the jury can't understand someone's guilt, they are less likely to consider someone guilty beyond a reasonable doub…

Honestly, aren't you underestimating your own intelligence?

Plenty of things can be simplified for non professionals, but the nuance of certain topics is then often lost. A single word in a written law can matter a lot.

No disrespect to anyone, but can an average career teacher understand the nuances of securities law? Can (s)he understand the actual difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion? Some can, absolutely. Others definitely can't and are operating way out of their league.

Lawyers and prosecutors are great at creating stories, but isn't what matters or not whether the law has been broken?

As an example; I had a tax issue (different interpretation of a certain law) but retained an amazing tax lawyer. He was _great_. The way they juggle the story around without lying, yet drawing the line very close, is amazing. Based on personal experience, I just don't think it can work without subject experts.

Amazing charismatic lawyers (or prosecutors) will be able to bend an outcome, and that is just not right.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#367

Post by artursapek »

cowmoo728 wrote: post #132
mikeash wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with Congress questioning someone about legal but shady activity? If he broke the law, he'd just be prosecuted. No reason for Congress to have anything to do with it. But if what he did was legal but wrong, then maybe the law should be changed, and that's exactly what Congress is for.

It doesn't inspire confidence that they questioned Shkreli, who was a relatively small player in the medical space, while a senator's daughter was in the middle of one of the most egregious price gouging schemes in recent memory. They even wrote legislation to make it mandatory to carry their product in schools and public buildings. The Shkreli inquiry reeked of hypocrisy and grandstanding. Those congressmen knew per…

Not to mention that their "questioning" was not even questioning, but instead exactly what you say - grandstanding. They basically unloaded uninformed rants on him while he was forced to sit there.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#368

Post by burkaman »

MSM wrote: post #173
burkaman wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trolling is lying. Either you believe terrible things, or you lie about believing them to make people angry. Normal lying is usually intended for personal gain, trolling is just lies intended to hurt other people.

>Trolling is lying Not at all, I think one of the most famous "troll" things he did was buy the master Wu-Tang album and threaten to destroy it so no one could ever hear the album. There's no lying or anything meant to "hurt" anyone there, but you can imagine that it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

Threatening to destroy it so nobody else can hear it is explicitly intended to hurt people who want to hear the album. If you don't mean to hurt anyone, by definition it isn't trolling.

Maybe I'm stretching the meaning of lying, but I think it's dishonest to represent yourself as a patron of the arts, as the album was produced as a piece of art, when you're really bidding on it with the sole purpose of depriving others. If that's not the reason he bought it, then he wasn't trolling.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#369

Post by artursapek »

CydeWeys wrote: post #27
cloakandswagger wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. My initial perception of Shkreli was the commonly accepted one of revulsion and hatred. After watching the Vice piece, plus a lot of Shkreli's finance talks and live streams, I find him pretty charming and unbelievably intelligent.

The outrageous price increases directly led to people dying because they couldn't afford life-saving medication. There's no redeeming yourself from that just because you're charming or intelligent. Psychopaths often are.

> The outrageous price increases directly led to people dying because they couldn't afford life-saving medication.

Show a single piece of evidence of that.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#370

Post by [deleted] »

charlesdm wrote: post #169
austenallred wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a jury trial that would absolutely sway things

Which, all things considering, is ridiculous. People shouldn't be able to be convicted because they're assholes (even if they are). I don't live in the US, but being convicted by a "jury of your peers" is frankly, ridiculous. When has the average person been able to grasp complex matters relating to say, securities fraud? Most people aren't even able to stay out of debt. A panel of judges with specialised experience…

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