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Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#301

Post by JackFr »

watwut wrote: post #240
emodendroket wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relying exclusively on bench trials seems unappealing to me (and I guess to James Madison, who enshrined the right of trial by jury in the Constitution) because it creates a much easier environment for an arbitrary court system to throw people in jail who are innocent and removes other protections like jury nullification. You could look at Japan, which tried to solve its problem of innocent people going to jail by in…

"because it creates a much easier environment for an arbitrary court system to throw people in jail who are innocent and removes other protections like jury nullification. You could look at Japan, which tried to solve its problem of innocent people going to jail by introducing a lay-judge system (kind of like jurors who can ask questions during the trial), for a real-life example of some of the problems you might hav…

Juries convict, but judges sentence. The incarceration rate is high because of strict sentencing guidelines written in the law and voters electing tough-on-crime judges. Eliminating jury trials would change none of that.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#302

Post by KingPrad »

discombobulate wrote: post #77

I quite like Martin. I talked to him a few time on YouTube, whilst he was live streaming. He's whip-smart & knowledgeable. He does, however, have a couple of major flaws. 1) He trolls. Hard. 2) It seems he lies. Which I picked up from a previous news article. (He claimed to have ~$50mm under management @ his previous hedge fund. It was more like $1.6mm. Something like that). I can forgive the trolling. It's over the…

I went to high school with a fellow like Shkreli and with same story: rising fortunes, financial lying, fraud, conviction.

Same traits as above, though unlike Shkreli this guy was extremely personable and likable.

He was just a congenital liar and driven by something inside to... do more, do something bigger. He had the most incredible stories in high school that largely turned out to be lies, but at the time it all hung together with enough reality you couldn't see through it.

It's interesting knowing someone like my acquaintance and seeing the same story in other people of playing fast with lies trying to make it really big, when they actually have the skills to do it more honestly.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#303

Post by discombobulate »

always_good wrote: post #299
discombobulate wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been around HN for a while. It went from 2 points to 0 to 1. I had already written the edit. I decided to keep it. I probably shouldn't have. I thought it would help. I guess it shows I'm human. I don't want to come across as a psychopath. I have a tendency to stick to ideas others feel are wrong (vs actually being wrong). Actually, HN is quite good on that front. Accepting logic. Edit: Could have lied here. Jus…

> It went from 2 points to 0 to 1. So you were complaining about 2 downvotes?

I wanted to eat dinner (it's late in the UK) & took the time to type out the comment. Yes.

Edit: I've also already said I would wait in future. Not sure what else you'd like.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#304

Post by jliptzin »

emodendroket wrote: post #197
charlesdm wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which, all things considering, is ridiculous. People shouldn't be able to be convicted because they're assholes (even if they are). I don't live in the US, but being convicted by a "jury of your peers" is frankly, ridiculous. When has the average person been able to grasp complex matters relating to say, securities fraud? Most people aren't even able to stay out of debt. A panel of judges with specialised experience…

Relying exclusively on bench trials seems unappealing to me (and I guess to James Madison, who enshrined the right of trial by jury in the Constitution) because it creates a much easier environment for an arbitrary court system to throw people in jail who are innocent and removes other protections like jury nullification. You could look at Japan, which tried to solve its problem of innocent people going to jail by in…

I think at the very least there should be some kind of juror training process. You'd still tap people from the general public, but these people could maybe serve up to 5 year terms where being a juror is their full time job for that time period, they're trained in advance, they go through some kind of testing period, maybe shadow a couple other juries, and then they go on to serve on real juries. Obviously this would be a paid position much like a postal employee.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#305

Post by KekDemaga »

wfunction wrote: post #205
KekDemaga wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I presume you offer your skills to anyone who asks at a wage that reflects a minimum cost of living (ie no iPhone or other luxuries the bare minimum cost of living). If not what is your reasoning beyond apparent greed?

I don't understand your comment.

Take a look at wealth globally, if GDP was evenly distributed every year everyone would get roughly ten thousand dollars. That's pretax, thus the total average spend per human being be in direct cash payments or via governmental programs should not exceed that number in a fair system. In western nations the poor see double that number on average in cash compensation, and more than triple that number when you include government services.

My point is fairness and accusations of greed cut both ways, if fairness was truly the concern of the poster he would also cut his standard of living in order to benefit those much worse off than him. As he more than likely does not his argument is not "let's increase fairness" but rather "people in my class and I deserve more" and that's the same argument the people raising the drug prices are making.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#307

Post by discombobulate »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #300
discombobulate wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gouging is a debatable economic concept.

How so? EDIT: Also, is that the only flaw you found with my comment? If so, lol.

Here's something on Wikipedia. I've not read it, yet. Not having a basis in economics is a reasonable argument, imo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging#Opposition_to_la...

Edit: I'm trying to listen to a live Shkreli interview & replaying @ the same time. Sorry if I didn't rebut it as fully as I would normally.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#308

Post by xrange »

charlesdm wrote: post #220
elliotec wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a check/balance against state power, i.e. the judicial system. Many countries have used this method for centuries. It's not ridiculous because the idea is that (the diverse selection of) your peers are equal to you in most ways, so are able to fairly judge you. A judge still has a lot of power and usually ultimately the decision goes to them as far as sentencing etc.

Right. But thing is, they are not actually equal on specialised matters? I understand that it works when you're dealing with things like murder. That can be relatively clear. But how about hacking? Securities fraud? Money laundering? Tax fraud? These are all highly specialised issues that the average person knows nothing about. No average person, unless they have an interest in it, will be able to make a good call on…

Just some clarification for those readers not in the U.S.. You as the defendant do not have to select have your case tried by a jury. You can select to have a bench trial instead. There is a presumption of innocence for the defendant, so the prosecutor has to show "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the defendant committed the crime in question. Juries find defendants not guilty more often then judges do. So if you want a society that better reflects the maxim, "better 10 guilty men go free, than 1 innocent man go to prison", then juries are empirically better.

http://aja.ncsc.dni.us/courtrv/cr43-2/CR43-2Bornstein.pdf

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#309

Post by _xhok »

Sangermaine wrote: post #192

"It's not always about lying! Sometimes it's about being cruel to strangers just to enjoy their suffering!"

How is that "being cruel to strangers just to enjoy their suffering"?

Also, you've commented in this thread about six times now with snarky remarks, unsubstantiated vitriol, and essentially "Martin Shkreli is a monster." Whether or not there's good reason to dislike him, I think you've successfully made your point.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#310

Post by emodendroket »

watwut wrote: post #289
emodendroket wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you think getting rid of juries would help, or at least not make things worse? One of the reasons it's so high is that most cases are resolved as part of the plea system and never go to trial.

Which happens because of power prosecutors have (ability to decide charge which makes all the difference - plea can make difference between a year and risk of 30 years in prison) which has little to do with jury vs judge. Majority of defendants deciding that they don't want to risk (or cant afford) a day in court is not an argument for that system.

It is a refutation of the argument that juries are bad because the US has a lot of people in jail, though.
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