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Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#261

Post by charlesdm »

elliotec wrote: post #248
charlesdm wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. But thing is, they are not actually equal on specialised matters? I understand that it works when you're dealing with things like murder. That can be relatively clear. But how about hacking? Securities fraud? Money laundering? Tax fraud? These are all highly specialised issues that the average person knows nothing about. No average person, unless they have an interest in it, will be able to make a good call on…

Sure, the point is there is no perfect system. This is just the best we've been able to come up with over a few millennia, and no we don't execute wonderfully and certainly our voting/jury population is full of interesting ideals, but it's what we have and it's _mostly_ worked over time. I'm not sure where you are but I'm curious to know of other systems considered "better"

I’m based in Belgium. Definitely not perfect, but different countries use different systems. In general, juries are only used when dealing with murder cases. All other issues are ruled upon directly by judges, who makes a direct interpretation of the law. If you’re dealing with a tax case, you will generally be assigned a judge somewhat familiar with tax law. Same if you’re dealing with a contract or a commercial issue, etc.

One can expect any judge to be an individual with above average intellectual ability.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#262

Post by Clubber »

singhrac wrote: post #189
Clubber wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I would be thrilled to triple my money in 18 months. Using the gambling analogy is disingenuous though.

I don't see why it's disingenuous? Investing is extremely risky, and I'm not convinced that he didn't just get lucky on the second bet. This isn't ok because the original investor was paid off. That's also how Ponzi schemes work - the original investors are paid off (I know, here the money seems to be generated from Retrophin, but the behavior is the same). This gave me a perspective: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/a…

Investing money with some knowledge and control of the outcome vs. gambling with house stakes are two completely different categories of risk.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#264

Post by beginpanic »

mindfulplay wrote: post #90
Sangermaine wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding? He's human garbage, let him rot. It's astounding how people are being taken in by this con man.

Regardless of big an asshole he is based on seeing the Vice interview and thinking about the big fraud pharma industry makes me think he is actually way better than the conniving people who run big pharma. This guy speaks out and maybe he is an asshole and suddenly everyone hates him. The rest keep their profits to themselves and we don't seem to care or mind.

Everyone has choices to make. Martin could have easily not been an asshole to cancer patients or investors at his fund. You want to let him off the hook just because he said "yup I'm a dick" while he was making the choice to be a dick and profited massively from being a dick?

Acknowledging the fact that what you're doing is wrong does not suddenly make that thing right. It's still wrong. And you're still an asshole for doing it.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#265

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

MichaelGG wrote: post #226
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't always a $100,000 treatment. Shkreli made it a $100,000 treatment with the justification being that the poor could still obtain it for free. But then he puts a bunch of beauracratic roadblocks in the way and it's their fault they don't jump through his hoops? For a pill that costs $1 outside the US and which he made $750? Come on man.

I'd imagine the roadblocks are there to prevent people abusing the system. And the rest of the roadblocks are by the FDA and perhaps CBP, right? Otherwise people could just import the $1 pills and be fine. If it turns out Turing was acting malicious and intentionally tried to block people from getting the medication despite knowing they were eligible, that's a different story. But I'm hardly going to take the word of…

>Martin put a face to all this, pointed out a huge flaw in this system and made money doing it.

Martin did not "point out a huge flaw", he got caught exploiting a huge flaw and is narcissistic enough to believe that he could sell that exploitation as something other than it is. The sad thing is that because he's "computer nerdy" a bunch of other "computer nerdy" people have fallen for the con.

>I'd imagine the roadblocks are there to prevent people abusing the system.

He could not have roadblocks and let the drug be cheap just like it was for decades. This is on Shkreli.

>But I'm hardly going to take the word of biased medical professionals on it.

Medical professionals are biased but the guy jacking up drug prices 5000% isn't? We're taking him at face value? pfft.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#266

Post by [deleted] »

discombobulate wrote: post #77

I quite like Martin. I talked to him a few time on YouTube, whilst he was live streaming. He's whip-smart & knowledgeable. He does, however, have a couple of major flaws. 1) He trolls. Hard. 2) It seems he lies. Which I picked up from a previous news article. (He claimed to have ~$50mm under management @ his previous hedge fund. It was more like $1.6mm. Something like that). I can forgive the trolling. It's over the…

[deleted]

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#267

Post by discombobulate »

elliotec wrote: post #207
discombobulate wrote: post #77

I quite like Martin. I talked to him a few time on YouTube, whilst he was live streaming. He's whip-smart & knowledgeable. He does, however, have a couple of major flaws. 1) He trolls. Hard. 2) It seems he lies. Which I picked up from a previous news article. (He claimed to have ~$50mm under management @ his previous hedge fund. It was more like $1.6mm. Something like that). I can forgive the trolling. It's over the…

I agree with you, but I might suggest editing out the last sentence of your edit because that's like, rude.

I'll keep it. I'm going to try & not do it it again. At the very least wait before saying anything!

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#268

Post by Clubber »

blahblah3 wrote: post #198
Clubber wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I would be thrilled to triple my money in 18 months. Using the gambling analogy is disingenuous though.

I think that's being too results driven and doesn't take into account the risk that was taken. As another example, suppose your uber driver drove you home while intoxicated. Even if the trip ended up being fine (no accidents, smooth ride), you would still have valid justification for complaining about this.

I understand a risk was taken, but gambling has a less than 50% chance of return (by design) while buying a Pharma company that you control is conceivably less risk.

Let me add to this: Buying a company you have a government mandated monopoly on (patent) that owns a product that people will die if they don't take (inelastic demand), and has a huge barrier to entry for new, competing entrants (FDA) is conceivably less risk than throwing chips on a roulette wheel.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#269

Post by sol_remmy »

cowmoo728 wrote: post #132
mikeash wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with Congress questioning someone about legal but shady activity? If he broke the law, he'd just be prosecuted. No reason for Congress to have anything to do with it. But if what he did was legal but wrong, then maybe the law should be changed, and that's exactly what Congress is for.

It doesn't inspire confidence that they questioned Shkreli, who was a relatively small player in the medical space, while a senator's daughter was in the middle of one of the most egregious price gouging schemes in recent memory. They even wrote legislation to make it mandatory to carry their product in schools and public buildings. The Shkreli inquiry reeked of hypocrisy and grandstanding. Those congressmen knew per…

> while a senator's daughter was in the middle of one of the most egregious price gouging schemes in recent memory.

For anyone curious, CEO of Epipen manufacturer Mylar is Heather Bresch . She is the daughter of senator Joe Manchin, who has introduced bills in the Senate to change FDA regulations to favor his daughter's company.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#270

Post by pshc »

hood_syntax wrote: post #14
sqeaky wrote: post #7

Putting people like Shkreli into prison for a long time is vital to the long term stability of society. I wish money didn't buy options to avoid prison and I wish that people with his behaviors didn't so often accrue large amounts of money.

That would be great if he wasn't one of many, and if nothing of significance will come from this ruling (it won't). He's just a convenient target that can be pointed to and said of "Look, aren't we doing our job?" when the truth is nothing will change in the long run.

The perfect is the enemy of the good.
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