Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#201

Post by emodendroket » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:57 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #193

charlesdm wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which, all things considering, is ridiculous. People shouldn't be able to be convicted because they're assholes (even if they are). I don't live in the US, but being convicted by a "jury of your peers" is frankly, ridiculous. When has the average person been able to grasp complex matters relating to say, securities fraud? Most people aren't even able to stay out of debt. A panel of judges with specialised experience…

You're not wrong. Humans are fallible and thus so are jury trials.

But judges are infallible and thus so are bench trials?

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#202

Post by chippy » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:57 PM UTC

discombobulate wrote: post #77

I quite like Martin. I talked to him a few time on YouTube, whilst he was live streaming. He's whip-smart & knowledgeable. He does, however, have a couple of major flaws. 1) He trolls. Hard. 2) It seems he lies. Which I picked up from a previous news article. (He claimed to have ~$50mm under management @ his previous hedge fund. It was more like $1.6mm. Something like that). I can forgive the trolling. It's over the…

> Fuck you people, frankly.

27 minutes ago

You might find that waiting a few more minutes might make readers more sympathetic to your thoughts. Often I suspect some users may downvote because they see both the impatience and the swearing at "you people" which they see as being every user except you.

Just a helpful hint. By the way, at 29 minutes, your comment was in the black and was not downvoted and was at #3. Welcome to Hacker News. I hope you enjoy your time on this technology site.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#203

Post by kylev » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:57 PM UTC

legohead wrote: post #12

Clubber wrote: post #5

I use to hate this guy, then I saw the Vice interview on him. It was nice to see his side of the story. I don't know much about this case in particular. It was kinda sleazy to see the congress question him about his price increases when they knew damn well it was perfectly legal and they haven't done anything to stop it. Shkreli seems to be trying to expose this hypocrisy, but the news loves their stories. Vice inter…

The YouTube video of him doing an Ebay Analysis [1] was very interesting I thought, both from a technical point of view and another look at his character. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFSf5YhYQbw

Are you still inclined to trust his teaching? I mean... he's a convicted financial criminal and you're linking to his finance video.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#204

Post by Clubber » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:57 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #151

ceejayoz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FWIW, he claims that he gave the medicine away for free to people who could prove they couldn't afford it, so that he was really only screwing insurance companies. Screwing insurance companies means increased costs for everyone . I'd really rather not pay 20% higher premiums every year to pad someone like Shkreli's pocketbook.

Great, then get the FDA to approve more people to make lifesaving drugs? A system where you're counting on the generosity of companies to charge low prices seems rather flawed. Only a couple thousand people use Daraprim in the US. He claims 2/3rd of sales are to the USG at 1c per pill. So if there's 700 full price patients at $100K a course, that's an extra $70M on 3 trillion? Companies were doing this before he did,…

>A system where you're counting on the generosity of companies to charge low prices seems rather flawed.

Oh, it is absolutely flawed and completely corrupt. It's so corrupt it's costing lives rather than just money. I'm not saying it's happening, but I wouldn't be surprised if the FDA's mandates and budget for approval aren't somehow related to keeping profits high.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#205

Post by wfunction » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:57 PM UTC

KekDemaga wrote: post #114

wfunction wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Okay, I'll bite. Why do you think he's human garbage. Obtaining a license just to increase a drug's price from $13.50 to $750 for no apparent reason other than greed isn't enough for you?

Can I presume you offer your skills to anyone who asks at a wage that reflects a minimum cost of living (ie no iPhone or other luxuries the bare minimum cost of living). If not what is your reasoning beyond apparent greed?

I don't understand your comment.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#206

Post by pm90 » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:58 PM UTC

huac wrote: post #74

swang wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prosecutors argued that Shkreli lied to investors in two hedge funds and the pharmaceutical company Retrophin, all of which he founded. Shkreli told investors he graduated from Columbia University, that his hedge fund was large and profitable, and that he had hired an auditor, they said. These were all lies, according to prosecutors. yeah seems like a great dude...

I mean, everybody came out okay - Shkreli really made his investors a lot of money! Yeah, he lied, but he did some incredible work: typical fraudsters take your money and run - he doesn't fit that mold. Honestly, the issue was that he's an utter asshole, including to his investors. Investors are willing to put with a lot if you triple their money, but Shkreli managed to cross that line. That made him an easy target f…

The law is very clear on what is a crime and what isn't. So when he misused his funds, he committed a crime. And he was prosecuted and convicted for it. Doesn't matter if in the end he cured cancer: he still committed a crime.

I have a feeling that since most people have never dealt with the justice system, they fail to appreciate just how black and white it really is. While the movies/TV do portray cases where "extenuating circumstances" help the case, most cases are pretty straightforward.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#207

Post by elliotec » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:58 PM UTC

discombobulate wrote: post #77

I quite like Martin. I talked to him a few time on YouTube, whilst he was live streaming. He's whip-smart & knowledgeable. He does, however, have a couple of major flaws. 1) He trolls. Hard. 2) It seems he lies. Which I picked up from a previous news article. (He claimed to have ~$50mm under management @ his previous hedge fund. It was more like $1.6mm. Something like that). I can forgive the trolling. It's over the…

I agree with you, but I might suggest editing out the last sentence of your edit because that's like, rude.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#208

Post by Clubber » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:58 PM UTC

brianpgordon wrote: post #135

ceejayoz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FWIW, he claims that he gave the medicine away for free to people who could prove they couldn't afford it, so that he was really only screwing insurance companies. Screwing insurance companies means increased costs for everyone . I'd really rather not pay 20% higher premiums every year to pad someone like Shkreli's pocketbook.

If you make money on a trade, someone else is losing money. That's nothing new. Where he went wrong is going into the healthcare space with that attitude. Shkreli thought that he didn't care about the bad PR it would bring him, but the microscope on him ended up uncovering illegal behavior.

I believe that's only true in flat or declining markets. Growth raises all boats, figuratively speaking.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#209

Post by monksy » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:58 PM UTC

swang wrote: post #22

Clubber wrote: post #5

I use to hate this guy, then I saw the Vice interview on him. It was nice to see his side of the story. I don't know much about this case in particular. It was kinda sleazy to see the congress question him about his price increases when they knew damn well it was perfectly legal and they haven't done anything to stop it. Shkreli seems to be trying to expose this hypocrisy, but the news loves their stories. Vice inter…

> Prosecutors argued that Shkreli lied to investors in two hedge funds and the pharmaceutical company Retrophin, all of which he founded. Shkreli told investors he graduated from Columbia University, that his hedge fund was large and profitable, and that he had hired an auditor, they said. These were all lies, according to prosecutors. yeah seems like a great dude...

Sounds like the standard playbook for startups. Oh you wanted a product, you should be happy with the mvp.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#210

Post by frgtpsswrdlame » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:58 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #164

hellofunk wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was free to any individual who wished to obtain it, with Martin footing the bill. [0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and health status, something that's difficult to focus on when their lives are in danger. In June, one of her patients…

So in order to save ~100% on a $100,000 treatment, they have to "jump though the hoops" and prove they need it (otherwise everyone would just do that?). OK?

It wasn't always a $100,000 treatment. Shkreli made it a $100,000 treatment with the justification being that the poor could still obtain it for free. But then he puts a bunch of beauracratic roadblocks in the way and it's their fault they don't jump through his hoops? For a pill that costs $1 outside the US and which he made $750? Come on man.