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The Loyal Engineers Steering NASA’s Voyager Probes Across the Universe

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Re: The Loyal Engineers Steering NASA’s Voyager Probes Across the Universe

#21

Post by twunde »

kzisme wrote: post #15
laydn wrote: post #4

You know, getting these electronics systems ready, sending out to deep space and communicating with these systems is an incredible feat. But, for me, another amazing thing about these long term projects is the sheer amount of knowledge that needs to be maintained and passed on to new people, over the course of several decades. To pull it off, this need of knowledge management and transfer must be so deeply engraved i…

I wish this sort of knowledge transfer happened in teams more often. Even in a relatively small team >20 I have found that even simple communication or sharing of knowledge falls apart _Very_ quickly.

It's something that you need to actively work on, just like automated tests. It also helps if you have someone who has written __good__ documentation before. The kind that people actually reference every few months.

Re: The Loyal Engineers Steering NASA’s Voyager Probes Across the Universe

#22

Post by kzisme »

twunde wrote: post #21
kzisme wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish this sort of knowledge transfer happened in teams more often. Even in a relatively small team >20 I have found that even simple communication or sharing of knowledge falls apart _Very_ quickly.

It's something that you need to actively work on, just like automated tests. It also helps if you have someone who has written __good__ documentation before. The kind that people actually reference every few months.

My main thing is that I feel each person/role in a team should _not_ feel Siloed off from one another. That's how I constantly feel - not being included on email chains, meetings, or told thing of importance till the last minute.

Maybe I'm not actually supposed to be in the loop, but it still doesn't feel like how teams are supposed to be ran.

Re: The Loyal Engineers Steering NASA’s Voyager Probes Across the Universe

#23

Post by rebootthesystem »

laydn wrote: post #4

You know, getting these electronics systems ready, sending out to deep space and communicating with these systems is an incredible feat. But, for me, another amazing thing about these long term projects is the sheer amount of knowledge that needs to be maintained and passed on to new people, over the course of several decades. To pull it off, this need of knowledge management and transfer must be so deeply engraved i…

Well, above all, you value experience.

Seriously, the degree to which age discrimination is an accepted reality in tech today is a great failing, and one that has enormous hidden costs over time.

Sadly I know a number of extremely talented older engineers who have been discarded like trash only to be constantly rejected in their search for new employment, until some of them just give up. It's remarkably ignorant and short-sighted of employers who practice this kind of discrimination.

Re: The Loyal Engineers Steering NASA’s Voyager Probes Across the Universe

#24

Post by rhombocombus »

dingo_bat wrote: post #19

How do you retain such talented people for such a long time? These people could get jobs in the most cutting-edge company in their respective fields. Still they choose to stay at the same place for decades.

By having them work on one of humanity's most important exploration projects ever. I get the impression that a lot of these folks are big picture types and that it would take a lot more than a pay raise to drag them away from their life's work.

Re: The Loyal Engineers Steering NASA’s Voyager Probes Across the Universe

#25

Post by mitchdoogle »

pat_space wrote: post #20
rodgerd wrote: post #3

I recommend seeing The Farthest ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znTdk_de_K8 ) if you have any interest at all in this.

Wow, I got goosebumps from the trailer. Thanks so much for the recommendation.

Looks like it will air on PBS on August 23. http://www.pbs.org/the-farthest/home/

Re: The Loyal Engineers Steering NASA’s Voyager Probes Across the Universe

#26

Post by mtm »

rodgerd wrote: post #3

I recommend seeing The Farthest ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znTdk_de_K8 ) if you have any interest at all in this.

I'd also highly recommend "NASA Voyager 1 & 2 Owners' Workshop Manual" https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/0857337750

It goes into amazing detail on the history of the spacecraft and the events that made it possible. For example: the story of an intern figuring out the '3 body' problem and, from there, the concept of 'gravity assist' gave me goosebumps

Re: The Loyal Engineers Steering NASA’s Voyager Probes Across the Universe

#27

Post by secstate »

wjnc wrote: post #17
rootbear wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the Voyagers and I'm very happy that there are people dedicated to keeping us in contact with them as long as they last. These Engineers are splendid examples of taking the long view, something we could use more of these days.

For me the article has a somewhat sad component (next to technological awesomeness): "In retirement, Zottarelli told me, he would like to see Florida again. He wonders how it has changed. In his garage is a 1954 Swallow Doretti, a fixer-upper. ‘‘It probably needs new brakes,’’ he said. I asked him if there was anywhere he liked to drive for fun. ‘‘No,’’ he replied. ‘‘Not anymore.’’" Imagine that's your grandfather. W…

That's a really well made point. And for what it's worth, stoicism doesn't ask you to never travel or have fun :)

The most depressing line for me was him effectively waiting (albeit in a joking manner) for his second stroke. No one should be worked to the point of fatalism.

On the one hand I love the team's dedication. On the other hand, I don't think it's just competitive pay that keeps young engineers out of that office. I imagine that the energy and excitement in the early 80s does not really exist anymore, and it's not fair to dump on young engineers for wanting that energy where they work.

Re: The Loyal Engineers Steering NASA’s Voyager Probes Across the Universe

#28

Post by bitexploder »

dingo_bat wrote: post #19

How do you retain such talented people for such a long time? These people could get jobs in the most cutting-edge company in their respective fields. Still they choose to stay at the same place for decades.

It is the love of the mission. The knowledge that you are advancing humanity in this concrete unique way, and that due to circumstance, if you quit it has a tangible increase in the chance of failure for this mission. It is how places like the NSA and other organizations within the government can retain such talented people. It is why PhD scientists toil in their field for much less than they could make in the public sector. It is why people choose to work at a lifestyle company making less than their counterparts at tech giants. A love of the mission/work and or a belief in the organization and its overall goals.

See: Daniel Pink and the whole autonomy, mastery, and purpose idea. This mission checks those three boxes quite strongly, likely captivating the engineers and folks on the mission :)

Re: The Loyal Engineers Steering NASA’s Voyager Probes Across the Universe

#30

Post by 1_2__4 »

rebootthesystem wrote: post #23
laydn wrote: post #4

You know, getting these electronics systems ready, sending out to deep space and communicating with these systems is an incredible feat. But, for me, another amazing thing about these long term projects is the sheer amount of knowledge that needs to be maintained and passed on to new people, over the course of several decades. To pull it off, this need of knowledge management and transfer must be so deeply engraved i…

Well, above all, you value experience. Seriously, the degree to which age discrimination is an accepted reality in tech today is a great failing, and one that has enormous hidden costs over time. Sadly I know a number of extremely talented older engineers who have been discarded like trash only to be constantly rejected in their search for new employment, until some of them just give up. It's remarkably ignorant and…

It's not short sighted. Most upper management in those sorts of companies isn't there for any kind of a long haul. They win if they can impress the VCs with what they shipped in the last few months, doesn't matter if none of it works, services are crashing and customers are unhappy. Imagine if organizations like NASA only recognized accomplishments like "added a button to such-and-such dashboard."

It's laziness mixed with incompetence mixed with the simple reality that too many companies consider it a competitive advantage that they're completely fucked up in their process and procedure but manage to somehow churn out something anyway.

And if you're not hitting your targets, why, move the target! Imagine how much easier NASA's job would be if they could say the moon shot was a success even though they only got something into orbit because we redefined what a moon shot was.

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