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How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

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Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#11

Post by Kurtz79 »

docdeek wrote: post #4

This seems pretty similar to Australia’s points system. http://www.border.gov.au/visas/supporting/Pages/190/points-t...

The main difference I see, is that unless you are a Nobel Prize or Olympic Medal winner, or a 26-30 yo with a PhD perfectly fluent in English, the only way to qualify is to have an existing job offer.

If I'm not wrong, both in Canada and Australia you can apply and look for a job there, if you can prove you have enough funds and past work experience, in addition to similar age/education/language fluency requirements.

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#12

Post by gambiting »

lnreddy wrote: post #3
pmiller2 wrote: post #2

I'm a US citizen, born an raised in this country, and a working software engineer in the Bay Area. I'm not sure I would score 30 points on this system.

That is a feature, not a bug. The ideal US immigration system should only welcome extraordinary people into the country.

I do wonder why. The American dream was available to pretty much anyone willing to try it through the green card lottery. Someone with no money and no education could try coming to US and making it big like many other people before. Or is the green card lottery programme not being scrapped?

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#13

Post by dogma1138 »

michaelt wrote: post #6

Five points are awarded if an applicant has a job offer that will pay at least 150% of median household income in the state where he or she will be employed. [...] 13 points if it's 300% the median. I wonder why the median income is tied to the state rather than the nation? It means an oil worker paid $120,000 is worth 8 points in Texas, but only 5 points in Alaska.

Exactly for this reason, to allow states with lower income to be more competitive.

100K for a Software engineer might not cut it in SV, but it will allow smaller tech hubs in places where tech salaries are not inflated like i don't know Kentucky for example to attract foreign talent.

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#14

Post by saimiam »

(Not an economist. Current h1b visa holder about to leave the US to grow my company in India.)

A country whose indigenous population growth is stagnating, whose indigenous population does currently not pick up all available jobs, whose economy is 6x as big as Canada and Australia combined is choosing to turn away immigrants.

From a purely numerical standpoint, an 18T dollar economy built by 330M individuals will start to become unstable if the population starts falling and aging. This is a distinct possibility when you only invite highly educated, skilled immigrants since education negatively correlates to family sizes. Falling population will be another reason to push for more automation (see Japan) leading to wage stagnation.

America, be careful what you wish for. Read this demographic report. It's eye opening. Childbirth rates are 1.82. If you bring in Nobel prize winners, you'll get brainy people who will not beget brainy kids.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Sta...

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#15

Post by dogma1138 »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #11
docdeek wrote: post #4

This seems pretty similar to Australia’s points system. http://www.border.gov.au/visas/supporting/Pages/190/points-t...

The main difference I see, is that unless you are a Nobel Prize or Olympic Medal winner, or a 26-30 yo with a PhD perfectly fluent in English, the only way to qualify is to have an existing job offer. If I'm not wrong, both in Canada and Australia you can apply and look for a job there, if you can prove you have enough funds and past work experience, in addition to similar age/education/language fluency requirements.

Yes, albeit the former is much more common in most other places. This is the same as the UK, there is virtually no way to immigrate under a work visa unless you are sponsored by a company (you still need to meet the point system).

It's also not that easy to get into Australia or Canada on a Visa to look for work, even if you have sufficient points you are much more likely to be declined unless you have a job offer / sponsorship.

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#16

Post by erispoe »

lnreddy wrote: post #3
pmiller2 wrote: post #2

I'm a US citizen, born an raised in this country, and a working software engineer in the Bay Area. I'm not sure I would score 30 points on this system.

That is a feature, not a bug. The ideal US immigration system should only welcome extraordinary people into the country.

That relies on the premise that immigration of "ordinary" people is somehow detrimental to the existing US population. This is, to my knowledge, not supported by any fact or study.

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#17

Post by dublinclontarf »

erispoe wrote: post #16
lnreddy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a feature, not a bug. The ideal US immigration system should only welcome extraordinary people into the country.

That relies on the premise that immigration of "ordinary" people is somehow detrimental to the existing US population. This is, to my knowledge, not supported by any fact or study.

> That relies on the premise that immigration of "ordinary" people is somehow detrimental to the existing US population.

How so?

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#18

Post by koolba »

erispoe wrote: post #16
lnreddy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a feature, not a bug. The ideal US immigration system should only welcome extraordinary people into the country.

That relies on the premise that immigration of "ordinary" people is somehow detrimental to the existing US population. This is, to my knowledge, not supported by any fact or study.

If you accept the premise that immigration itself should be limited to a finite quantity (per time period, say per year), it's not a leap to reason that importing highly skilled people is better for the economy than low skilled people.

Low skilled immigrants compete against low skilled workers that are already here and depress their wages. High skilled workers do the same thing but at the top end with the added advantage of generating more tax dollars and GDP (since they have more income).

At its core the question becomes: Is immigration a public policy to benefit those that are here (ie strengthen economy, unify familial bonds) or a charity offered to the rest of the world?

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#19

Post by arethuza »

koolba wrote: post #18
erispoe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That relies on the premise that immigration of "ordinary" people is somehow detrimental to the existing US population. This is, to my knowledge, not supported by any fact or study.

If you accept the premise that immigration itself should be limited to a finite quantity (per time period, say per year), it's not a leap to reason that importing highly skilled people is better for the economy than low skilled people. Low skilled immigrants compete against low skilled workers that are already here and depress their wages. High skilled workers do the same thing but at the top end with the added advan…

Seems a bit harsh to describe immigration of people who are prepared to work and support themselves as "charity offered to the rest of the world".

Edit: To be fair - I can see the argument for a supply of immigrant low skill workers potentially keeping wages depressed hitting existing US residents and while it might be good for the wealthy and businesses it might not be good for the majority. I'm in the UK and these arguments are very similar to those covered in the Brexit campaigns and while I voted Remain and I've since come to appreciate more of the arguments on the other side.

Re: How to earn 'points' under Trump immigration plan?

#20

Post by gberger »

Some quick math for an "average" college grad:

- [Age] 22-25: +8

- [Education] Foreign BS: +5

- [English] 90th percentile (108 or more on TOEFL [0]): +11

This amounts to 24 points, needing 6 more to achieve 30. A job offer of 150% the median household income of the state is only +5 points, so the candidate would need a 200% offer. This means, using 2015 data [1]:

- California: $64.5k -> $129k

- Washington: $64k -> $128k

- New York: $61k -> $122k

- Massachussets: $70k -> $140k

The numbers above are, obviously, higher than average, but certainly reachable for excellent software engineers at big companies. (It is unclear to me if other compensation components such as stocks/equity count toward the 200%.)

However, if such candidate reaches the age of 26, earns a foreign MS in a STEM field, or obtains a perfect TOEFL score, thus earning an additional point or two, then she would need a job offer equivalent to only 150% the median household income.

--

[0]: https://magoosh.com/toefl/2015/whats-your-toefl-percentile/

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income

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