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Japan’s labor market is tight, and higher wages may be needed to retain workers

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Re: Japan’s labor market is tight, and higher wages may be needed to retain workers

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>[+] One of my first conversations with a boss at a traditionally managed Japanese company involved my expected timeline to get married and what the company's role in that process would be; my boss assumed that it would be sourcing the bride. This was the example I was thinking of when reading the first part of your message. I'm glad you said it because I feared it would've been seen as an exaggeration if I added it…

Not to trivialize real gender prejudice, but there is no shortage of Japanese women who are in a dire search for a convenient marriage to a busy man who can give her children, financial support, and otherwise leave her alone. Even among my friends, whom I consider to be highly intelligent and evolved people, this is a perfectly normal aspiration.

Is this a cultural thing? Do women in Japan not aspire to fall in love?

Re: Japan’s labor market is tight, and higher wages may be needed to retain workers

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to trivialize real gender prejudice, but there is no shortage of Japanese women who are in a dire search for a convenient marriage to a busy man who can give her children, financial support, and otherwise leave her alone. Even among my friends, whom I consider to be highly intelligent and evolved people, this is a perfectly normal aspiration.

Is this a cultural thing? Do women in Japan not aspire to fall in love?

It is my understanding that "love" (the Western standard of Romantic love) isn't as important as building a stable relationship piece by piece in non-Western cultures.

Re: Japan’s labor market is tight, and higher wages may be needed to retain workers

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a cultural thing? Do women in Japan not aspire to fall in love?

It is my understanding that "love" (the Western standard of Romantic love) isn't as important as building a stable relationship piece by piece in non-Western cultures.

It's not sufficient in Western countries either. I.e., high divorce rates.

Re: Japan’s labor market is tight, and higher wages may be needed to retain workers

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"sourcing" in this context means "identifying and referring candidates" not making an official commitment.

Exactly. If you hire a recruiter to source employees for you, they aren't going to come back and say "Here's your employee. Hope things work out for you." they are going to say "Here's someone who seems like a good fit. Do you want to interview them?".

I guess you and I and everyone else have a lot of different interpretations for what the original text might mean. The fact that it is ambiguous is demonstrated. It was simply a poor choice of words and I'm sorry to have made too big a deal about it.

Still. In my company, if a division is going to source a component for us, it means they deliver that component. They don't provide a bunch of google options for manufacturers we might want to look at, or make introductions, or whatever. They get the damn thing and make it available to us. As such, sourcing has a specific meaning to me and perhaps I went overboard applying it to the ultra-great-grandparent comment.

Re: Japan’s labor market is tight, and higher wages may be needed to retain workers

#125
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am specifically talking about London. The living costs in London are enormous. A fellow student has a highly payed analyst job at Goldman Sachs in London, but still does room sharing in a flat somewhere in London.

I know living costs are "enormous". But if you make 3 times more money as you'd do in Berlin, it's still a much better deal. The point I was making even in top cities in Germany (Munich for example) where living costs are also enormous, salaries are not very competitive compared to SF/NY or London (this only applies to contracting, permanent salaries are low in London).

So be fair and compare to the contractor salary in Tokyo as well. I can assure you that, despite being lower, salaries are quite close to London ones. A 3 time difference is a myth. Unless you are going to compare London engineers to Tokyo combini part time worker.

Re: Japan’s labor market is tight, and higher wages may be needed to retain workers

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to trivialize real gender prejudice, but there is no shortage of Japanese women who are in a dire search for a convenient marriage to a busy man who can give her children, financial support, and otherwise leave her alone. Even among my friends, whom I consider to be highly intelligent and evolved people, this is a perfectly normal aspiration.

Is this a cultural thing? Do women in Japan not aspire to fall in love?

Of course many do aspire to a fulfilling romantic life. I'm always a little bit amazed, however, when perfectly normal people admit that they want to marry for status, stability, and other purely pragmatic reasons. (It's not just women who express this, by the way.)

Marriage is pretty complicated here, at least to my outsider eye. I know quite a few middle aged women who openly have steady (usu. older) boyfriends, but these boyfriends go home to a wife who barely speaks to him anymore, and yet refuses to divorce him. This also seems to be a relatively normal relationship in middle and later years here.

Like all human stuff, it's complicated under the surface.

Re: Japan’s labor market is tight, and higher wages may be needed to retain workers

#127
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither do American millennials. First world problems.

Americans still create couples that live together - just without papers. Japan is much different in that regard. They are singles.

Wikipedia: "According to the 2010 census, 58.9% of Japan's adult population is married", "As of 2006, 55.7% of Americans age 18 and over were married."

If you can find the rate of people living with an unmarried partner in the US or in Japan, I'll be surprised because I certainly can't. Part of the reason is that until recently it wasn't even on the census -- only "cohabitating families", which includes living with your parents.

I know this kind of stuff get repeated in the news over and over again, but I'm going to be honest with you. A lot of it is bad journalism. It is popular to trash foreign cultures and hold up your own as superior -- it sells. Reporters get these fluff pieces from news wires (or actually the vast majority of "trash japan" stories start from a single place - The Japan Times) and don't check the facts.

Having said that, if you actually can find the facts, I would be interested in seeing them. I suspect that you are right that people living with unmarried partners (the term currently used by the US census) has a higher incidence in the US than in Japan. But you will have to do a fair amount of work to make the comparison meaningful.

The average age of marriage in Japan is 30.1. The average age of marriage in the US is 28.2. If you couple that fact that 66% of people who got married in the US in 2012 cohabitated for more than 2 years, then you can see that there are a fair number of young people in the US who are essentially married, where in Japan people wait until they are older.

In Japan, that kind of cohabitation is rare (people live with their parents before they get married). One of the reasons (and IMHO, the overriding reason) that Japanese people get married late is because young Japanese women hold a lot of power in the proceedings. Young women live with their parents and work. And even though they often help with costs in the household, they are relatively financially well off. Also, young women tend to want to have children when they are older because it will interfere with their job. Single income families with stay at home mothers is still very popular here. This pushes the age of marriage back. It also pushes the fertility rate down (because if you have your first child in your early thirties, then there often isn't enough time to have many more. Also, it increases the generational gap).

Now, another complicating factor is that in Japan "marriage" is not really a thing the way it is in the west. In the west, marriage is still, by and large, a religious institution. In some countries, only the church can marry you. In Japan, the only thing that counts is having your name on the family register. You don't even need a ceremony. You can just wander up to city hall, fill out the forms and, voila, you are married.

If you are not on the same family register in Japan, you are not in the same family. It does not matter where you live. When the census comes around, it is sent to the head of the family on the register. If there are 2 families living at the same address, then there are 2 census forms. There is no way to indicate that you are cohabitating! Similarly, if you are on somebody's family register (because you got married), but you aren't living together -- there is no way to get another census form! So separation statistics in Japan are also impossible. I even know people who have had a wedding ceremony, but for various reasons did not want to change the family registry. So they are not married! (Which makes things very complicated because all family law is based on the family registry -- if you are not on the registry, then you are not a family, by definition).

Basically, what I'm saying is that you're going to have your hands full if you want to make a meaningful comparison. And like I said, I realise that people are inundated with a lot of stuff from the media (and especially youtube), so it is hard to know what is right and what is wrong. Just keep in mind that quite a lot of the stuff you here is motivated by something other than trying to educate you.

Re: Japan’s labor market is tight, and higher wages may be needed to retain workers

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a large population of chinese students in Japan who are very happy to work at such rates. > which in Tokyo barely cover your transport and lunch costs Is this another of those things where paying a person an non-livable wage is going to be construed as a Good Thing™? How about we raise the prices so the people serving us the food can, you know, live?

Raising prices destroys demand. It's not immediately clear that 5 well employed people and 5 unemployed people are preferably to 10 poorly employed people. If the 5 who would be unemployed have some superior alternative, why aren't they doing it already? Or would you say they should be forcibly unemployed to combat their laziness in looking for better work (which you apparently think exists)?

Then maybe demand should be lower? If your business can't operate without paying people slave wages, you have no business being in business.

Or, far more likely, the CEO needs to make a few million less so the people who operate his business can EAT.

Re: Japan’s labor market is tight, and higher wages may be needed to retain workers

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to trivialize real gender prejudice, but there is no shortage of Japanese women who are in a dire search for a convenient marriage to a busy man who can give her children, financial support, and otherwise leave her alone. Even among my friends, whom I consider to be highly intelligent and evolved people, this is a perfectly normal aspiration.

Is this a cultural thing? Do women in Japan not aspire to fall in love?

Your question makes certain assumptions that are itself, specific to your culture.

ie, the idea that falling in love and choosing your partner are somehow related.

Re: Japan’s labor market is tight, and higher wages may be needed to retain workers

#130
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60k Euro for a senior? Is that total liquid comp? That's like one fifth of what a senior makes at goofacesoftwhatever. I had no idea German salaries were so low, wow.

When I look at descriptions about the living costs/housing prices in SF and its environment, I think that with, say, EUR 40k one has a better life in Germany (except the really expensive metropolitan areas in Germany as Munich, Stuttgart etc.) than with US$ 100k somewhere around SF.

Right, but if a senior at amagoowhatever is making 350k usd, and a senior in Berlin/münchen is making 70k usd, it's a very, very different conversation. I meant literally five times as much, not a figure of speech...
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