Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#191

Post by tpolischuk » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 9:49 PM UTC

dotancohen wrote: post #155

orclev wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the plastics front, just look at the news from earlier this week of Lego working to replace all of the plastics used in their toys with bio-plastics (or other non-oil based polymers). A few more efforts like that and plastics won't be anywhere near the driver of oil consumption they are now. That doesn't address shipping (which is horrendously polluting), but if that's the last one standing that's still a massive…

Commercial aviation as well will never be electric. It would require two orders of magnitude energy to weight density, and quadruple flight times.

People also thought we would never get man into space :)

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#192

Post by aqsalose » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 10:42 PM UTC

nicpottier wrote: post #77

lumberjack wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They created a product that is way differentiated from every other car out there and people want to buy it. What? The Bolt has slightly better range, and probably much better build quality. The difference in price is $2k on a base price of $30k. And if Chevy could do it, I'm positive most others can too.

I really like the Bolt and agree as an electric vehicle it is super competitive. But can I buy a Bolt today and get self driving capabilities on the same car in a few years? That's a pretty massive pull towards the Tesla even if you consider everything else equal. You don't even have to pay for it now, you can wait it out and pay for the self driving to be activated later once you are sold, but not having to buy an e…

I'm not sure if I'd buy a vehicle with promised "self-driving capabilities" (especially if we are talking about full replace-human-pilot watch-movies-instead-of-driving capabilities) in mind until the manufacturer has positively demonstrated that yes, they are able to create that kind of capability with the sensors and hardware vehicles are equipped with.

For example, turning on a self-driving feature that still requires constant vigilance and treating it like it does not ... sounds accident-prone.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#193

Post by SeoxyS » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 10:43 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #39

abritinthebay wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point about companies with large cash hoards is true but breaks down at the sheer scale of Apple & it’s cash reserve. Apple is routinely making several billion dollar bets. They invest Amazon & Tesla debts regularly but it just doesn’t make a dent . At some point a cash pile is so large it’s basically impossible to spend responsibly. Even with big bets. They have so much cash they could buy Disney outright if th…

> They have so much cash they could buy Disney outright if they wanted to. Think about that for a second... Yeah and they don't. Why don't they buy Tesla? Why don't they buy Disney? Why don't they attempt to reinvent home construction which is a stagnant for the most part? Why aren't they the next Bell labs? Why not reinvent major home appliances most of which are a huge drag and a dumpster fire of usability? "This c…

The right thing for a company like Apple to do with extra cash (other than dividends and buybacks) is to invest it. There's only so much innovation it can do as a single entity… but as a VC firm (à-la Google Ventures) or as an LP (into Sequoia, KPCB, etc.) or as diversified fund (à-la Berkshire Hathaway) it can drive more value for its shareholder and more innovation through investing capital. Note, this is pretty much what Apple is doing.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#194

Post by randyrand » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 10:45 PM UTC

princekolt wrote: post #2

> The company burned through $1.16 billion in cash in the second quarter by spending on capacity for its cheapest model yet and boosting battery output. This makes me very happy. It's very rare for a large company to literally risk their existence to bring a new product to market. Most prefer to just sit in the pile of cash and profit from margins...

Its rare for big companies, but not rare for still-unprofitable companies.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#195

Post by AlaskaBuilding » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 10:46 PM UTC

DannyBee wrote: post #107

tpolischuk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is he wrong? Did Tesla not prove to the rest of the auto industry that electric cars are not only viable but also profitable and inevitable? Would we have the Bolt, Spark, Fiat e500, eGolf without Tesla?

"Is he wrong? Did Tesla not prove to the rest of the auto industry that electric cars are not only viable but also profitable and inevitable?" No, they didn't. Nobody doubted they were viable or profitable, only desired. If TSLA accomplished anything, it was convincing people they are desired. That demand definitely did not exist before TSLA. Your comment implies all these things were already the case. That electric…

You already got downvoted, but your info is pretty wrong. Let me clarify one thing. Tesla delivered the model s in 2012. I know because I got one in December then. I don't know when the bolt was designed, but starting in 2012 sounds about right. The Tesla was available for getting in line in 2011 and a little before (cause I put my money down to get in line in early 2011), but delivered in 2012. Other manuf. were not taking it as seriously as Tesla way back then. They already had experience with the roadster being on the road before then.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#196

Post by erikpukinskis » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 10:53 PM UTC

kgwgk wrote: post #20

bryanlarsen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gross margin on the Model S is over 25%.

Gross margin doesn't give you the full picture. SG&A (20% of sales) eats most of that margin and R&D is 12% of sales. I'm not sure how profitable Tesla could be cutting this additional costs without going too far (to avoid compromising the viability of the company).

If they were just going to churn out Model S and X, they wouldn't need to do much R&D. They could have a handful of people sit around and draw new headlight designs like the other car companies.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#197

Post by cakedoggie » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 10:59 PM UTC

flexie wrote: post #61

simonsarris wrote: post #7

> “He’s going to need capital,” said Ross Gerber, chief executive officer of Gerber Kawasaki Wealth & Investment Management, which holds Tesla shares. “That’s the one part of the financials that are a little bit troubling. To underestimate the cash burn over the next six months will be a mistake.” It's not that troubling. Even massive companies (AMZN in 2014) need to raise big capital. When you have something you wan…

Whether Tesla survives or not, these billions are some of the best spent money on the planet in the last 50 years. What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great. What Tesla has achieved is so important in the long run for the environment, for ending the strategic dependence on oil dictatorships, and for renewing the belief i…

> What Tesla has achieved is so important in the long run for the environment

Yeah, one thing the environment definitely needs is our continued reliance on personal transport vehicles, more roads, and more mining.

How anyone can frame this as being good for the environment is a joke. Yes, it is better than a gas car. That is a long way for actually being green.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#198

Post by cakedoggie » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 11:00 PM UTC

elmar wrote: post #171

j7ake wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what has been the net reduction of CO2 usage because of tesla to date?

Not eating meat is much more efective to saving the planet than buying a Tesla. http://www.businessinsider.com/is-eating-meat-bad-environmen...

Well of course, doing almost anything is much more effective than buying a Tesla. More cars are not planet saving at all, and it is delusional to think so.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#199

Post by dkrich » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 11:02 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #182

dkrich wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the middling dumbphones are what comprised the majority of the market, the market that Apple completely took over. How many people were using smart phones as a % of overall market in 2007? The only real players that I can remember were Palm and Blackberry, and both those were terribly executed in comparison to the iPhone. And yeah, more than 10% of reservations were cancelled but that couldn't possibly be bec…

If you intended to say that the iPhone was far superior to the typical dumbphone of the day, then I can accept that. I was responding to what you wrote, though. If 65,000 cancelled reservations translates to "a lot of people don't want to spend $35k on this car," then the nearly half a million remaining reservations must translate to "a shitload of people want to spend $35k on this car." No?

Not really. First of all, they are reservations, not purchases. And the outstanding orders represent everyone who follows this company the most closely and who are the most enthusiastic about these cars. Once that demand is exhausted, can we be certain that the demand will continue?

I'm not saying that it's certain that it won't, but it does remain to be seen. In the automotive industry, a half a million cars just isn't a lot. Certainly not enough to proclaim that "a shitload of people" will want one for many years to come. Ford sells 750k F150s each year. That's just one model. And those aren't reservations, they're sales.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#200

Post by semi-extrinsic » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 11:03 PM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #157

flexie wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether Tesla survives or not, these billions are some of the best spent money on the planet in the last 50 years. What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great. What Tesla has achieved is so important in the long run for the environment, for ending the strategic dependence on oil dictatorships, and for renewing the belief i…

With some products it takes a while for the penny to drop, you mention Google, think of Street View and how there was that moment when this nice idea led to something bigger - Google owning maps with all their own cartography not copied from any other agencies. They got copyright on maps by doing them better. The task they undertook was something that most companies would petition their government to do, not do it th…

> Soon you will be able to get a plug in the lamppost by your door fitted by your electricity company, this will be a bit like getting a satellite dish installed, except the lamppost will work for three cars.

... and except that you need to have a bunch of guys with heavy machinery come dig up and re-lay the road, so that the electricians can come and lay the new 60 A cables for the lamppost, while another bunch of guys is upgrading the neighborhood distribution transformer which has reached max capacity, apart from those minor details, it's exactly like one guy screwing a parabolic piece of aluminium to your house wall.