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Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

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141–150 of 433 posts

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#141
post #119
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alt-right is not "middle-of-the-road conservative". The alt-right is literal-not-figurative fascism with memes and, occasionally, good dress sense. If you consider white supremacists (oh, sorry, white nationalists (oh, sorry, ethno-nationalists )) to be "middle of the road conservatives," there is a profoundly deeper problem in your calculus.

> The alt-right is literal-not-figurative fascism What gives you this impression?

Most likely the association goes alt-right->white nationalism->fascism.

The most common refutation is that the alt-right is not a white nationalist movement, but that is entirely beside the point. The alt-right is absolutely a nationalist and isolationist movement. It was also certainly started by white nationalists and white supremacists, and those two groups are still fully present and influential in the greater movement.

Nationalism, race-cleansing and isolationism are not necessarily fascism although they are intimately related. There are a great number of fascists in the movement, including many who call themselves libertarians, but there are also a lot of people who are anti-authoritarian. Actual, literal fascists believe the government may take ultimate control of the economy and people to accomplish the goals of the nation, particularly in times of "emergency", which most of them believe this is. They do not believe in democracy under any circumstances, only in an umbrella of direct dictatorial control.

So, taking that all together, does the alt-right overall meet the definition of fascism? Yeah, I think so. The alt-right's mandate is to prevent jobs from leaving the country, end international trade (mercantilism, in fact), and to bar immigrants. They're a little wishy-washy on foreign intervention and have strong opinions both ways. They want these goals to be accomplished through direct action by the president- convincing or ordering corporations to hire inside the country, and ordering an end to imports. They want to ban immigration for the safety of the country and many want to additionally protect cultural homogeneity. Trumps cabinet very much recalls Mousollini's corporatism, with energy company reps in charge of the EPA and secretary of state.

Trumps whole thing is a lone wolf against the rest of the government, trying to take control and convert it to what it should be. That applies to the government, economy, and society. His alt-right supporters support that in one or more categories. To the alt-right, Trump is the only one who can restore jobs where they should be, restore the people to who they should be, and fix how people act and the expectations they have of each other. That's pretty textbook fascism.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#142
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen Patreon kicking people off their platform for political reasons, so it is not decentralized, though certainly more so than alternatives existing before Patreon. The evolution will converge towards content creators being funded through decentralized crypto currency platforms so that the money cannot be prevented from getting to creators if someone wants to pay them. Something more along the lines of https://…

They kicked off 8chan but kept The Sarkeesian Effect so in my opinion they've got it exactly right. They keep up pretty nasty stuff in the name of free speech, but don't let you cross the line into doxing and the like. I much prefer having sensible humans at the helm than have something purely anonymous.

There is no "getting it right" in free speech. Either you allow free speech or you don't, if you are keeping one controversial thing but kick out the other you gave up on free speech. You can't kick someone out because you think its right and claim allowing free spech.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Benevolent AI maybe? More Iain Banks "Culture", that's the universe I'd choose out of all sci-fi to live in I think.

An AI would need to live a human life in a human body in order to understand what "benevolence to humans" means, and such an experience would make it functionally equivalent to a human with a cloud prosthesis.

I'm thinking Breq in ancillary justice..

A large scale ship's AI reduced to a single ancillary, having to deal with humans on their level

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lauren Southern. She was banned after throwing flares and attempting to block a ship (with no refugees on board) from leaving port to pick up refugees who she believes are being trafficked into Italy with the government's assistance. She was arrested for participation in this act of protest and then Patreon made the claim that her activities could have caused loss of life (which is ridiculous).

> She was arrested for participation in this act of protest and then Patreon made the claim that her activities could have caused loss of life (which is ridiculous). You don't get to go into other countries, break their laws, and expect private corporations to back you to the hilt. They are under no obligation to put themselves at risk for your beliefs. That isn't a reasonable expectation by any stretch of the imagin…

Patreon had no liability in this situation. Patreon doesn't support the sale of software, and software as speech is a much murkier area than... actual, literal speech.

This is effectively saying that investigative journalists shouldn't get too political in unpopular causes, lest they have their livelihood taken away from them. This is a suppression of free speech (not legally ofc) on a platform that syndicates political news and opinions.

“it appears that you are currently raising funds in order to take part in activities that are likely to cause loss of life."

This is taking a political stance; anyone on either side of rescue missions for refugees is funding something that is likely to cause loss of life. One is just politically en vogue.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#145
post #42

I have seen so many content creators go full time and create awesome work because Patreon gives them a format to incentivize their followers to pay them. The economics are beautiful — turns out just 1,000 people (a pittance on internet mass media websites) donating $5 a month will totally change the way you run your life. And even better, these artists are independent in a way no artist has ever been before. You’re n…

I've seen Patreon kicking people off their platform for political reasons, so it is not decentralized, though certainly more so than alternatives existing before Patreon. The evolution will converge towards content creators being funded through decentralized crypto currency platforms so that the money cannot be prevented from getting to creators if someone wants to pay them. Something more along the lines of https://…

> I've seen Patreon kicking people off their platform for political reasons […]

Have you? Are you thinking of Lauren Southern? Or maybe It's Going Down? The explanation from Patreon is very reasonable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmcK6GvgVPs

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#146
post #18

Unless I'm missing something, they seem to only have a monthly contribution model. There are many times where I find a content creator helpful (for example a video tutorial on how to fix my broken washing machine), and I'd like to reward them. But I don't want to do it monthly, as I'll probably never watch another thing from them. So I'd like to be able to easily leave a one-time tip. Can Patreon do this, and it's ju…

Hate to sound pessimistic to your well-intentioned suggestion, but if someone prefers not to support a creator monthly/regularly, then they are unfortunately choosing not to support them sustainably. I feel strongly that to ask for one-off giving is to ask for a badly designed system. People can't dedicate their output to creating value for you when they're living off a tip-jar. Consistency is the key to backgroundin…

I agree with your point, and it makes perfect sense not to support a "tip-jar" option.

I know there is an option to cancel subscription at any time, but it just doesn't feel right. I would prefer a limited time subscription, similar to the physical magazines. If I like someone, I will sign up for 12 months of support. The author could count on a steady (to a degree) income for the next year and plan accordingly. If a year later I am still interested I will renew my subscription. And the platform could provide an insight on both current and a projected revenue, so consistency aspect is still there.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#147

In my years on the internet I find the content works itself out, so I'm unsure why I'd pay anyone anything. Half the reason I like most of it is because it's free.

Every I support on Patreon publishes there content for free. Some have token perks, like early access or occasional patron only content, but not enough to justify paying. It is a patronage model. Donors donate so the create has the resources to create.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#148
barf. yuck.

I found that article physically repulsive.

Patreon, if you are listening, don't buy into all the power that the article wants to shower upon you. They want you to influence your exercise of that power, and they want you to use that power to do their bidding in limiting free debate of ideas.

Patrons and the person that they support, that's it, that's all there is to it. The silver coin is being given by hands of patrons and taken by hands of one that is being supported, that silver coin shouldn't have opinions, emotions and desires. Stay neutral, that is the greatest challenge of our time, stay neutral. If a crime is being committed then co-operate fully with law enforcement, but don't give in to the pressures from lobbying groups with their own agenda.

Don't get carried away into the corrupting power the platforms like youtube, facebook, twitter exercise on the discussion carried out on these platforms. They have absolute power, and you can see that once you use it, it's addictively corrupting. Stay neutral, it is going to be hard to do, I hope you find the power within you to do so.

Good luck.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#149

I asked this before, but it wasn't really the place: 1. To those who donate to Patreons, how do you budget/think about/justify your donations? 2. Do you have a set budget? What if you really want to support someone suddenly, do you stop supporting someone else to do so, or reduce how much you give them? 3. When do you stop/reduce Patreon support? How long do you typically support someone? Until you feel they no longe…

1. For me it's kinda subjective.

Some creators I support just because I like their stuff and want more of it. I usually think about this in terms of the impact my contribution will have on the creator and how much I'll end up enjoying it. For example a guy who makes hours of video in his living room that I watch every month and love (personally, Lindybeige) is worth more to me than someone who makes super high production value stuff very infrequently (e.g. CGPGrey).

Others I'll support for the rewards. I know Patreon is meant to be a "support people out of the goodness of your heart" kind of thing but a lot of creators I just want "stuff" from. Typically for me this is high resolution digital art or physical pieces of original art mailed to me.

Sometimes it's a combination of both.

2. Nope. I just think about how much money I'm spending on Patreon when I do it. I mostly think of creators as individuals, not a big bucket of stuff and I consider my monthly expenses as a whole. If I think I'm spending too much I might cancel a Patreon contribution because I've lost interest in that creator or I might cancel a software subscription or something.

3. See point 1. When the value I place on the support/rewards goes down, the contribution goes down with it. This can be because a creator no longer interests me, a creator has so many contributions from others that I feel mine no longer have impact or because the rewards no longer satisfy me.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#150

There should be no middle men. Only a direct P2P model will truly benefit everyone.

I disagree. There are shared services that Patreon provides that would be a pain for creators:

- Payment processing: Patreon consolidates all payments under one gateway account so fees are low for everyone.

- Support: What happens if the payment fails? Creators don't want to deal with that mess every month, it's less time to do useful stuff.

- Abuse handling: Patreon can deal with spam comments and the like.

- Service hosting: They integrate all this stuff in one place that creators don't have to host themselves.

- Consolidated management for Patrons: As a subscriber it's nice to see all the stuff I'm supporting and how much I'm paying for it in one place.

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