Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 224 posts

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#111

Post by prettygenius »

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #79

Jesus. Look at the top comment and the replies in this thread. I find it hard to believe it is real HN commenters and not a TSLA PR campaign here. "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great." Seriously? This is being voted up? Also, the top commenter here "simonsarris" is a top commenter in the other TSLA thread. https:/…

People can be very devoted to their brand. It doesn't mean they're automatically shills.

"OMG THIS GUY COMMENTED ON TWO TESLA THREADS, GET HIM!"

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#112

Post by ckastner »

tpolischuk wrote: post #103
blang wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the parent's point that they are not profitable?

Sure, maybe for Tesla, (and other similar growth at all cost technology companies) it it's not immediately profitable. Let's check back in 10 years and see if this makes Tesla and their investors any money.

By that logic, any company not yet bankrupt could be called profitable.

Profit is a reflection of past performance, not future potential.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#113

Post by tpolischuk »

ckastner wrote: post #110
tpolischuk wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Why does this bother you? Why can't people be fans of a person, company or product?

The grandparent's argument wasn't against fans, it was against cults.

Ya well calling it a cult is a pretty extreme exaggeration.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#114

Post by jessriedel »

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #84
jessriedel wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the jump from noting that the same enthusiastic fanboy is in the HN thread and the TSLA thread to "It's like a TSLA/Elon cult meeting in this thread." If you just note the connection without the inflammatory language, it's much more productive.

> I don't see the jump from noting that the same enthusiastic fanboy is in the HN thread and the TSLA thread to "It's like a TSLA/Elon cult meeting in this thread." Have you read the comments and the replies?

Yes. The fact that HN is sympathetic to Tesla is not more surprising than it's unusual interest in bicycle lanes and life extension. But name calling doesn't help at all. Better would be to link to high-quality criticism, write it yourself, or minimally just point out imbalance without inflammatory language.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#115

Post by doingmyting »

rsync wrote: post #71
simonsarris wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have so much cash they could buy Disney outright if they wanted to. Think about that for a second... Yeah and they don't. Why don't they buy Tesla? Why don't they buy Disney? Why don't they attempt to reinvent home construction which is a stagnant for the most part? Why aren't they the next Bell labs? Why not reinvent major home appliances most of which are a huge drag and a dumpster fire of usability? "This c…

"Why don't they buy Tesla? Why don't they buy Disney? Why don't they attempt to reinvent home construction which is a stagnant for the most part?" I think it's worth considering that prices for assets just might be a little high right now. I have no idea what Apple is doing and don't have any specific insights but I have, in the past few years, found myself passing on certain growth and investment opportunities becau…

Please note that if the price of these potentially acquirable companies fall, the value of Apple and its cash hoard will fall along with them. Apple doesn't exist within a vacuum.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#116

Post by rsync »

smeyer wrote: post #89
rsync wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What a century of observing the auto industry has taught us is that car buyers in huge percentages have fierce brand-loyalty and that anytime a new model is brought to market there's a huge uphill battle to create demand." I think we could be at a point similar to laptop buyers in 2002/2003/2004. Remember when there were multiple companies making laptops and you would comparison shop and read reviews and look ahead…

> And then 2-3 years later there was one laptop manufacturer: Apple Your view of Apple laptops seems to represent only a small segment of the market. While Apple was on the rise, they were still only 3rd behind Dell and HP in market share by 2007 [0] and are roughly 5th over the last few years [1]. They presumably look better on a revenue rather than units basis, but they were never the sort of singular force you des…

"Your view of Apple laptops seems to represent only a small segment of the market. While Apple was on the rise, they were still only 3rd behind Dell and HP in market share by 2007 [0] and are roughly 5th over the last few years [1]. They presumably look better on a revenue rather than units basis, but they were never the sort of singular force you described them as."

Yes, that's correct - which is exactly how we are looking at Tesla.

I have no idea what laptops low end, price constrained buyers bought (and continue to buy).

This is a good analogy to Tesla cars which are also priced out of that category.

I am in the market for a very high end, full sized luxury car and I am troubled that by some measures there is only one supplier of those, currently. This is coming from someone who owned two successive A8s over an 8 year period and has lost all interest in that, and any other market entrant, based on an ICE. My current interest level in new press releases for A8/7/S feels exactly like how I suddenly felt in 2004 or so when news of new laptop models suddenly failed to register even a blip.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#117

Post by vvanders »

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #93
tpolischuk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is he wrong? Did Tesla not prove to the rest of the auto industry that electric cars are not only viable but also profitable and inevitable? Would we have the Bolt, Spark, Fiat e500, eGolf without Tesla?

> Is he wrong? Did Tesla not prove to the rest of the auto industry that electric cars are not only viable but also profitable and inevitable? From your "context": "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B?" $5-10B Losses doesn't translate into "profitable". > Would we have the Bolt, Spark, Fiat e500, eGolf without Tesla? Maybe? Electric cars existed before TSLA and electric cars will exist after TSLA. What is…

> Maybe? Electric cars existed before TSLA and electric cars will exist after TSLA.

Go watch "Who killed the electric car", then you'll understand what a travesty the EV1 was. Electric cars have always been compliance cars before Tesla. Heck, Bob Lutz credits Elon Musk with why they build the Volt.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#118

Post by shalmanese »

simonsarris wrote: post #7

> “He’s going to need capital,” said Ross Gerber, chief executive officer of Gerber Kawasaki Wealth & Investment Management, which holds Tesla shares. “That’s the one part of the financials that are a little bit troubling. To underestimate the cash burn over the next six months will be a mistake.” It's not that troubling. Even massive companies (AMZN in 2014) need to raise big capital. When you have something you wan…

People misunderstand corporate debt because they analogize it to household debt but the analogy doesn't work because most household spending is consumption whereas most business spending is investment.

When a business makes $1 of profit, it's that business saying "we couldn't find a single project across our entire organization that we believe would have given us a higher expected return than that dollar sitting in a bank account."

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#120

Post by shalmanese »

simonsarris wrote: post #39
abritinthebay wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point about companies with large cash hoards is true but breaks down at the sheer scale of Apple & it’s cash reserve. Apple is routinely making several billion dollar bets. They invest Amazon & Tesla debts regularly but it just doesn’t make a dent . At some point a cash pile is so large it’s basically impossible to spend responsibly. Even with big bets. They have so much cash they could buy Disney outright if th…

> They have so much cash they could buy Disney outright if they wanted to. Think about that for a second... Yeah and they don't. Why don't they buy Tesla? Why don't they buy Disney? Why don't they attempt to reinvent home construction which is a stagnant for the most part? Why aren't they the next Bell labs? Why not reinvent major home appliances most of which are a huge drag and a dumpster fire of usability? "This c…

People use cash as a shorthand but it's not literally dead cash sitting in a bank account. That $250B is sitting in index funds and T bills where it's indirectly funding all of those businesses that are investing in sustainable housing and improved appliances and a billion other things.

Apple just believes those companies have a better shot at accomplishing those goals than Apple does and it's fine letting them continue.

Post reply on HN