Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#81

Post by throwawayknecht » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 4:43 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #39

abritinthebay wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point about companies with large cash hoards is true but breaks down at the sheer scale of Apple & it’s cash reserve. Apple is routinely making several billion dollar bets. They invest Amazon & Tesla debts regularly but it just doesn’t make a dent . At some point a cash pile is so large it’s basically impossible to spend responsibly. Even with big bets. They have so much cash they could buy Disney outright if th…

> They have so much cash they could buy Disney outright if they wanted to. Think about that for a second... Yeah and they don't. Why don't they buy Tesla? Why don't they buy Disney? Why don't they attempt to reinvent home construction which is a stagnant for the most part? Why aren't they the next Bell labs? Why not reinvent major home appliances most of which are a huge drag and a dumpster fire of usability? "This c…

> Why stop at a nice looking HQ, why not create Castalia?

Castalia was an isolationist academy where young men spent all their time studying glass toys they falsely believed modeled all art and history, while the rest of the world slowly collapsed around it.

Apple's already built that.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#82

Post by adventured » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 4:43 PM UTC

bmh_ca wrote: post #60

People often think of the electronic-nature of their cars as Tesla's key advantage. Other elements factor into share/debt cost analysis: 1. Culture — They appear to still have a startup "let's solve the problem" mentality 2. Distribution — There are no networks of dealerships taking a cut 3. Marketing — They don't need to pay for it at all right now 4. Legacy — There are no pension funds and other obligations on them…

> Pensions are underfunded

That contrast issue is very weak. GM's pension was underfunded by $7.2 billion at the end of 2016. They had $24.7 billion in cash at that point. It's around 7% underfunded. It's a non-issue, particularly since GM has continued to successfully work at reducing it and has been solidly profitable since the great recession.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#83

Post by jessriedel » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 4:45 PM UTC

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #79

Jesus. Look at the top comment and the replies in this thread. I find it hard to believe it is real HN commenters and not a TSLA PR campaign here. "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great." Seriously? This is being voted up? Also, the top commenter here "simonsarris" is a top commenter in the other TSLA thread. https:/…

I don't see the jump from noting that the same enthusiastic fanboy is in the HN thread and the TSLA thread to "It's like a TSLA/Elon cult meeting in this thread." If you just note the connection without the inflammatory language, it's much more productive.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#84

Post by awkwarddaturtle » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 4:48 PM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #83

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #79

Jesus. Look at the top comment and the replies in this thread. I find it hard to believe it is real HN commenters and not a TSLA PR campaign here. "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great." Seriously? This is being voted up? Also, the top commenter here "simonsarris" is a top commenter in the other TSLA thread. https:/…

I don't see the jump from noting that the same enthusiastic fanboy is in the HN thread and the TSLA thread to "It's like a TSLA/Elon cult meeting in this thread." If you just note the connection without the inflammatory language, it's much more productive.

> I don't see the jump from noting that the same enthusiastic fanboy is in the HN thread and the TSLA thread to "It's like a TSLA/Elon cult meeting in this thread."

Have you read the comments and the replies?

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#85

Post by tpolischuk » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 4:49 PM UTC

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #79

Jesus. Look at the top comment and the replies in this thread. I find it hard to believe it is real HN commenters and not a TSLA PR campaign here. "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great." Seriously? This is being voted up? Also, the top commenter here "simonsarris" is a top commenter in the other TSLA thread. https:/…

The comment you are quoting is a snippet out of context. I'm not sure why you're so upset.

'Whether Tesla survives or not, these billions are some of the best spent money on the planet in the last 50 years. What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great. What Tesla has achieved is so important in the long run for the environment, for ending the strategic dependence on oil dictatorships, and for renewing the belief in technology. And the cars are really nice too. Speculating, as some do, that the EV revolution would end with a Tesla bankruptcy is silly, not just because Google and Apple (and probably other companies) would be more than happy to take over before or after a bankruptcy, but also because consumers and the the auto industry have now been shown where to go. None of us can unlearn what Tesla has taught us. There is no way back now. Tesla has already won.'

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#86

Post by Garet_Jax » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 4:50 PM UTC

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #79

Jesus. Look at the top comment and the replies in this thread. I find it hard to believe it is real HN commenters and not a TSLA PR campaign here. "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great." Seriously? This is being voted up? Also, the top commenter here "simonsarris" is a top commenter in the other TSLA thread. https:/…

Jesus. Seriously? Seriously? <- Seems desperate.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#87

Post by awkwarddaturtle » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

tpolischuk wrote: post #85

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #79

Jesus. Look at the top comment and the replies in this thread. I find it hard to believe it is real HN commenters and not a TSLA PR campaign here. "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great." Seriously? This is being voted up? Also, the top commenter here "simonsarris" is a top commenter in the other TSLA thread. https:/…

The comment you are quoting is a snippet out of context. I'm not sure why you're so upset. 'Whether Tesla survives or not, these billions are some of the best spent money on the planet in the last 50 years. What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great. What Tesla has achieved is so important in the long run for the environm…

> I'm not sure why you're so upset.

I'm not. But it's interesting how I just got swarmed by 3 commenters.

> The comment you are quoting is a snippet out of context.

The context makes it even worse.

"None of us can unlearn what Tesla has taught us. There is no way back now. Tesla has already won.'"

I can't believe you think that the "context" makes it any less cultish. The comment is almost messianic.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#88

Post by throwfast1 » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 4:54 PM UTC

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #79

Jesus. Look at the top comment and the replies in this thread. I find it hard to believe it is real HN commenters and not a TSLA PR campaign here. "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great." Seriously? This is being voted up? Also, the top commenter here "simonsarris" is a top commenter in the other TSLA thread. https:/…

they have what appears to be a great product -- I am a lowly network security engineer and think I would enjoy working for them and interacting with their teams.

the reality is the tesla team has continually delivered (often later than expected) in spite of incredible odds including significant short interest in the company and the probably increase in short interest after articles like this.

I am rooting for them, despite the fact I probably will not buy one for a few years I like what they are doing and believe they are a net positive.

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#89

Post by smeyer » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 4:54 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #74

dkrich wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where I disagree with most people who are bullish on Tesla. I think there's a huge risk for Tesla that most people don't factor in- that it's very possible that most car buyers simply don't want one . The interesting thing about that is that most people seem to assume that making them at enormous scale and meeting the overwhelming demand is the only risk. What a century of observing the auto industry has taug…

"What a century of observing the auto industry has taught us is that car buyers in huge percentages have fierce brand-loyalty and that anytime a new model is brought to market there's a huge uphill battle to create demand." I think we could be at a point similar to laptop buyers in 2002/2003/2004. Remember when there were multiple companies making laptops and you would comparison shop and read reviews and look ahead…

> And then 2-3 years later there was one laptop manufacturer: Apple

Your view of Apple laptops seems to represent only a small segment of the market. While Apple was on the rise, they were still only 3rd behind Dell and HP in market share by 2007 [0] and are roughly 5th over the last few years [1]. They presumably look better on a revenue rather than units basis, but they were never the sort of singular force you described them as. They might have held that position among a certain segment of laptop buyers, but not the general market.

[0] http://www.macworld.com/article/1059616/appleshare.html

[1] https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-2015-notebook-...

Re: Tesla Burns Through Record Cash to Bring the Model 3 to Market

#90

Post by tpolischuk » Thu, Aug 03, 2017, 4:54 PM UTC

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #87

tpolischuk wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment you are quoting is a snippet out of context. I'm not sure why you're so upset. 'Whether Tesla survives or not, these billions are some of the best spent money on the planet in the last 50 years. What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great. What Tesla has achieved is so important in the long run for the environm…

> I'm not sure why you're so upset. I'm not. But it's interesting how I just got swarmed by 3 commenters. > The comment you are quoting is a snippet out of context. The context makes it even worse. "None of us can unlearn what Tesla has taught us. There is no way back now. Tesla has already won.'" I can't believe you think that the "context" makes it any less cultish. The comment is almost messianic.

Is he wrong? Did Tesla not prove to the rest of the auto industry that electric cars are not only viable but also profitable and inevitable? Would we have the Bolt, Spark, Fiat e500, eGolf without Tesla?