Germany's biggest Bitcoin exchange surrenders user data to the police
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Re: Germany's biggest Bitcoin exchange surrenders user data to the police
#2I get user data protection and all that, but when you know that the charges are drug-related and they'd get a warrant anyway, why not cooperate and make it easier for everyone?
Would you risk having your servers seized for someone you know committed a crime? If you do, you make it very easy for competitors to shut you down.
edit: I'm assuming they don't blindly trust the police, but can verify the transactions to the drug site themselves. If that's not the case, making the police get a warrant would be the right thing to do.
Re: Germany's biggest Bitcoin exchange surrenders user data to the police
#3I get user data protection and all that, but when you know that the charges are drug-related and they'd get a warrant anyway, why not cooperate and make it easier for everyone? Would you risk having your servers seized for someone you know committed a crime? If you do, you make it very easy for competitors to shut you down. edit: I'm assuming they don't blindly trust the police, but can verify the transactions to the…
In the US: make them get the warrant. It's not the service provider's job to determine if probable cause exists, and the service provider is probably very bad at it. Police always go for the consent search first precisely because the standard for a warrant is so high.
Re: Germany's biggest Bitcoin exchange surrenders user data to the police
#4I get user data protection and all that, but when you know that the charges are drug-related and they'd get a warrant anyway, why not cooperate and make it easier for everyone? Would you risk having your servers seized for someone you know committed a crime? If you do, you make it very easy for competitors to shut you down. edit: I'm assuming they don't blindly trust the police, but can verify the transactions to the…
But should we allow the police to threaten people with overbroad warrants?
"Gives us the data on these 8 people, or we'll get a warrant for it."
vs.
"Gives us the data on these 8 people, or we'll get a warrant to confiscate all your servers, computers, laptops, and phones."
And getting a warrant is not as large a barrier as people like to believe: https://www.popehat.com/2014/07/15/warrants-bulwark-of-liber...
Re: Germany's biggest Bitcoin exchange surrenders user data to the police
#5I get user data protection and all that, but when you know that the charges are drug-related and they'd get a warrant anyway, why not cooperate and make it easier for everyone? Would you risk having your servers seized for someone you know committed a crime? If you do, you make it very easy for competitors to shut you down. edit: I'm assuming they don't blindly trust the police, but can verify the transactions to the…
Because if you make it too easy for the police they'll just ask for too much all the time, even for things where they wouldn't get a warrant. This is happening in Germany all the time when a provider wants to be nice to the police.
If they say "we'll get a warrant anyway", just response "okay, so get the warrant and come back and I'll give you the data". Then at least it's up to a judge to decide where giving out data is warranted, and not up to an oridinary policeman and sysadmin.
Re: Germany's biggest Bitcoin exchange surrenders user data to the police
#6I get user data protection and all that, but when you know that the charges are drug-related and they'd get a warrant anyway, why not cooperate and make it easier for everyone? Would you risk having your servers seized for someone you know committed a crime? If you do, you make it very easy for competitors to shut you down. edit: I'm assuming they don't blindly trust the police, but can verify the transactions to the…
Because if you make it too easy for the police they'll just ask for too much all the time, even for things where they wouldn't get a warrant. This is happening in Germany all the time when a provider wants to be nice to the police. If they say "we'll get a warrant anyway", just response "okay, so get the warrant and come back and I'll give you the data". Then at least it's up to a judge to decide where giving out dat…
> This is happening in Germany all the time when a provider wants to be nice to the police.
All the time? Really?
Re: Germany's biggest Bitcoin exchange surrenders user data to the police
#7I get user data protection and all that, but when you know that the charges are drug-related and they'd get a warrant anyway, why not cooperate and make it easier for everyone? Would you risk having your servers seized for someone you know committed a crime? If you do, you make it very easy for competitors to shut you down. edit: I'm assuming they don't blindly trust the police, but can verify the transactions to the…
But should we allow the police to threaten people with overbroad warrants? "Gives us the data on these 8 people, or we'll get a warrant for it." vs. "Gives us the data on these 8 people, or we'll get a warrant to confiscate all your servers, computers, laptops, and phones." And getting a warrant is not as large a barrier as people like to believe: https://www.popehat.com/2014/07/15/warrants-bulwark-of-liber...
In Germany the police can threaten all they want, getting a warrant for user data is the prosecutor's job. That's also why don't give out the data directly the police. If the prosecutor is asking that's a totally different level than the police.
Re: Germany's biggest Bitcoin exchange surrenders user data to the police
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because if you make it too easy for the police they'll just ask for too much all the time, even for things where they wouldn't get a warrant. This is happening in Germany all the time when a provider wants to be nice to the police. If they say "we'll get a warrant anyway", just response "okay, so get the warrant and come back and I'll give you the data". Then at least it's up to a judge to decide where giving out dat…
> This is happening in Germany all the time when a provider wants to be nice to the police. All the time? Really?
Not literally. But if you make the police work much easier by voluntarily giving out data that you don't need to give them of course they are happy to take your offer to make their job easier whenever they can.
Re: Germany's biggest Bitcoin exchange surrenders user data to the police
#9I get user data protection and all that, but when you know that the charges are drug-related and they'd get a warrant anyway, why not cooperate and make it easier for everyone? Would you risk having your servers seized for someone you know committed a crime? If you do, you make it very easy for competitors to shut you down. edit: I'm assuming they don't blindly trust the police, but can verify the transactions to the…
Because if you make it too easy for the police they'll just ask for too much all the time, even for things where they wouldn't get a warrant. This is happening in Germany all the time when a provider wants to be nice to the police. If they say "we'll get a warrant anyway", just response "okay, so get the warrant and come back and I'll give you the data". Then at least it's up to a judge to decide where giving out dat…
See my edit. I'm assuming they can verify the allegations, due to the nature of BTC transactions.
A warrant possibly means that they go out of business, because the servers are physically seized. If you tell me you'd risk that for a stranger who you can tell probably committed a crime, I don't believe you.
Re: Germany's biggest Bitcoin exchange surrenders user data to the police
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because if you make it too easy for the police they'll just ask for too much all the time, even for things where they wouldn't get a warrant. This is happening in Germany all the time when a provider wants to be nice to the police. If they say "we'll get a warrant anyway", just response "okay, so get the warrant and come back and I'll give you the data". Then at least it's up to a judge to decide where giving out dat…
See my edit. I'm assuming they can verify the allegations, due to the nature of BTC transactions. A warrant possibly means that they go out of business, because the servers are physically seized. If you tell me you'd risk that for a stranger who you can tell probably committed a crime, I don't believe you.
>A warrant possibly means that they go out of business, because the servers are physically seized
Why would the police be interested in destroying a legitimate business just because they want data for 8 users?
They can just as well get the warrant and then get the data the same way they did now.