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Scientists Edit a Dangerous Mutation in Human Embryos

nytimes.com

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Re: Scientists Edit a Dangerous Mutation in Human Embryos

#101

Post by jimbokun »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #90
jimbokun wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe those countries will fuck up their population's genetic makeups in unforeseen ways, and we can be fortunate for having dodged that bullet. Do you honestly believe there is a single "intelligence" gene we can edit to turn up intelligence like a knob, without impacting anything else about the person? Do you want your baby to be the first one its tried out on?

Who said it was a single gene? Do you believe that because there is a risk, no study of these methods or this idea in general should continue?

Did you just volunteer to be the first experimental subject to get your genes edited with these techniques?

Re: Scientists Edit a Dangerous Mutation in Human Embryos

#102

Post by kronos29296 »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #88
laydn wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you portray the US to have a higher moral standard for this subject matter. I wonder if there's a Chinese guy who read the article and said: If China doesn't do it, USA will, and in a generation will be swollen with a population so much more fit as to make the question of the Chinese standing toe-to-toe laughable. If USA doesn't, Russia will. Maybe it is time to start thinking about an international agreem…

America, historically, has been defined by a Protestant culture which places a lot of religious and moral significance on conceiving human life, and on God's role in creation. Chinese culture does not, as far as I know, have the same stigma against genetic engineering (I admit that while I have traveled for some time in China, I am relatively unfamiliar with any moral, religious, or cultural issues they may have on t…

What Chinese Govt. says is much more important than Chinese morals and culture.

Re: Scientists Edit a Dangerous Mutation in Human Embryos

#103

Post by optimuspaul »

jimbokun wrote: post #91
perseusprime11 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. There are unlimited possibilities. This may even allow us to survive on Mars or any other places if we actually know how to edit the gene. Like anything, technology can also be used in the wrong way and we must guard against.

"This may even allow us to survive on Mars or any other places if we actually know how to edit the gene." How in the world did you make that leap? What's the one gene we can edit that reconfigures human physiology to run off of CO2?

It's not just one gene, it's two. I toggle them back and forth all the time. A third one gives me gills.

Seriously? Why wouldn't you make that leap? and why would you assume they would presume to know what gene or if it was even one gene?

Re: Scientists Edit a Dangerous Mutation in Human Embryos

#106

Post by jimbokun »

duxup wrote: post #89
komali2 wrote: post #6

>and is sure to renew ethical concerns that some might try to design babies with certain traits, like greater intelligence or athleticism. If America doesn't do it, China will, and in a generation will be swollen with a population so much more fit as to make the question of the US standing toe-to-toe laughable. If China doesn't, Russia will. I want genetic engineering because it's logical that as humans learn to exer…

It seems inevitable. I always think of the doctor visit in Gattaca.... that's a pretty appealing sales pitch he gives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYJNv8wZvDk

His sales pitch makes me nauseous.

Re: Scientists Edit a Dangerous Mutation in Human Embryos

#107

Post by zhengyi13 »

RangerScience wrote: post #95
jimbokun wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe those countries will fuck up their population's genetic makeups in unforeseen ways, and we can be fortunate for having dodged that bullet. Do you honestly believe there is a single "intelligence" gene we can edit to turn up intelligence like a knob, without impacting anything else about the person? Do you want your baby to be the first one its tried out on?

> Or maybe those countries will fuck up their population's genetic makeups in unforeseen ways This is why diversity is important.

I think you're right, but I think this doesn't address what I suppose is a reasonable fear: engineer a significant enough advantage to out-compete a rival population, and then only later rediscover the need for diversity. That doesn't work out well in the long term for either population, but that doesn't mean that, given the choice, it wouldn't happen.

Given the Chinese example, I'm immediately reminded of the folly of The Great Leap Forward and Chinese steel production quotas, and their results.

Re: Scientists Edit a Dangerous Mutation in Human Embryos

#108

Post by [deleted] »

Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #82
laydn wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you portray the US to have a higher moral standard for this subject matter. I wonder if there's a Chinese guy who read the article and said: If China doesn't do it, USA will, and in a generation will be swollen with a population so much more fit as to make the question of the Chinese standing toe-to-toe laughable. If USA doesn't, Russia will. Maybe it is time to start thinking about an international agreem…

It's not moral standards we have, it is ridiculously parochial notions of purity and natural-is-better attitudes. If we fail to free our children from stupidity and ill health, we are the moral imbeciles. If Asian nations increase health, IQ, and happiness through genetic selection and engineering, this will speak of higher moral sophistication. We have right-wing religious conservatives on one side and on the left a…

[deleted]

Re: Scientists Edit a Dangerous Mutation in Human Embryos

#109

Post by simplify »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #90
jimbokun wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe those countries will fuck up their population's genetic makeups in unforeseen ways, and we can be fortunate for having dodged that bullet. Do you honestly believe there is a single "intelligence" gene we can edit to turn up intelligence like a knob, without impacting anything else about the person? Do you want your baby to be the first one its tried out on?

Who said it was a single gene? Do you believe that because there is a risk, no study of these methods or this idea in general should continue?

There are several problems.

First, what is intelligence? Is it simply math & science? What if we lose other hard-to-measure, essential traits?

How much happiness is "better"? Should we "switch on" a gene that makes someone perpetually happier, given the option?

What happens when a set of traits becomes popular? Will diversity be lost? Will everyone choose lighter shades of skin?

Re: Scientists Edit a Dangerous Mutation in Human Embryos

#110

Post by scierama »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #92
Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not moral standards we have, it is ridiculously parochial notions of purity and natural-is-better attitudes. If we fail to free our children from stupidity and ill health, we are the moral imbeciles. If Asian nations increase health, IQ, and happiness through genetic selection and engineering, this will speak of higher moral sophistication. We have right-wing religious conservatives on one side and on the left a…

If you outlaw genetic engineering, only outlaws will be genetically engineered. Then they'll take over the world.

That's a paradox since a genetically improved species would abhor violence. They would have no ability to take over the world. They would become subservient like the Eloi in The Time Machine.
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