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Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

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Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#261

Post by mikeleung »

undersuit wrote: post #108
Expez wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With withdrawal limits being what they are, this is easier said than done for a lot of users, I'd guess.

Was their any actual limit to moving Bitcoins held in Coinbase to another wallet/software? If there are why is it a problem now and not always?

I think the limit the other commenters are mentioning are only for moving bitcoins out of GDAX, their exchange. I don't think there is a limit to how much you can withdraw from a wallet directly on coinbase not on the exchange

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#262

Post by SilasX »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #257
blhack wrote: post #229

Coinbase is in a bad situation here. If they set a precedent that all BTC forks will be available to their users, then they open themselves to some pretty obvious DOS attacks. 10 new "bitcoins" could fork every day. Are we really going to expect coinbase to support them all? That's absurd. I think it's pretty obvious that they're going to just issue the BCH to people eventually. Here's another thought experiment: I a…

As one of the btc nouveaux rich, help me understand something I see reoccurring among my other btc-rich friends. Generally, when you're up big (and in some cases extremely wealthy), you diversify your investments in order to preserver your wealth. However, almost without exception my btc friends are such believers that they are holding on for the ride forever. Is it just that the risk-averse were initially drawn to b…

I've seen the same -- I know someone who got in early to BTC, then moved it all into Ethereum early, such that he has enough to comfortably retire today. But he won't cash any of it in except for a small amount each month to live on, while he lives rent free with others.

When I explain the logic of hedging and mitigating risk and locking in gains, he was insistent that the right strategy is to hold because it's going to go up some more, and he doesn't need the money now for any of his current objectives.

Come to think of it, I should at least consider that he's making it up, but I've met him several time and he's well versed in crypto and way ahead of the curve in learning about this stuff. Who knows?

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#263

Post by aparadja »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #257
blhack wrote: post #229

Coinbase is in a bad situation here. If they set a precedent that all BTC forks will be available to their users, then they open themselves to some pretty obvious DOS attacks. 10 new "bitcoins" could fork every day. Are we really going to expect coinbase to support them all? That's absurd. I think it's pretty obvious that they're going to just issue the BCH to people eventually. Here's another thought experiment: I a…

As one of the btc nouveaux rich, help me understand something I see reoccurring among my other btc-rich friends. Generally, when you're up big (and in some cases extremely wealthy), you diversify your investments in order to preserver your wealth. However, almost without exception my btc friends are such believers that they are holding on for the ride forever. Is it just that the risk-averse were initially drawn to b…

I think the parent comment is just a hypothetical situation, and blhack isn't actually a bitcoin millionaire.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#264

Post by aqme28 »

blhack wrote: post #229

Coinbase is in a bad situation here. If they set a precedent that all BTC forks will be available to their users, then they open themselves to some pretty obvious DOS attacks. 10 new "bitcoins" could fork every day. Are we really going to expect coinbase to support them all? That's absurd. I think it's pretty obvious that they're going to just issue the BCH to people eventually. Here's another thought experiment: I a…

> 10 new "bitcoins" could fork every day.

I think you're vastly underestimating how difficult it is to mine a new block on-demand.

It simply is not worth throwing that computing power at a DDOS attack. Moreover, if I _had_ that computing power, I'd rather just mine a regular block and get that sweet miner's reward.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#266

Post by dragonwriter »

dsacco wrote: post #260
bdcravens wrote: post #228

Big point to remember: the current high price is artificial. There are only a few exchanges selling BCH, and they aren't accepting deposits. The only sellers are those who had BTC there prior to August 1. So it's a sellers market. There's a ton of demand to sell. Once those deposits are enabled, you'll see a flood of dumping, and the price will crash. So let's say Coinbase allows BCH withdrawals. Unless they enabled…

Regardless of the price, an exchange cannot seize customer assets by giving them 10 days notice for withdrawal. It doesn't matter if it's a separate currency - we have things resembling this in public markets, like stock splits. It doesn't matter if everyone can fork the cryptocurrency, that doesn't change the principle of a customer's asset. What Coinbase should have done is this: 1. Stood their ground on not suppor…

> Regardless of the price, an exchange cannot seize customer assets by giving them 10 days notice for withdrawal.

Perhaps, but the legal question is whether a protocol fork as a matter of law creates a new asset owned by the customer, creates a new asset owned by whoever controls the wallet keys, or merely creates an opportunity which someone who controls wallet keys may exploit to generate a new asset by participating in the ecosystem on the new side of the fork.

(Fundamentally, this also lays near the question of legal ownership of Bitcoin or similar cryptocurrency in general and what specifically is “owned” when one owns them.)

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#267

Post by modeless »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #257
blhack wrote: post #229

Coinbase is in a bad situation here. If they set a precedent that all BTC forks will be available to their users, then they open themselves to some pretty obvious DOS attacks. 10 new "bitcoins" could fork every day. Are we really going to expect coinbase to support them all? That's absurd. I think it's pretty obvious that they're going to just issue the BCH to people eventually. Here's another thought experiment: I a…

As one of the btc nouveaux rich, help me understand something I see reoccurring among my other btc-rich friends. Generally, when you're up big (and in some cases extremely wealthy), you diversify your investments in order to preserver your wealth. However, almost without exception my btc friends are such believers that they are holding on for the ride forever. Is it just that the risk-averse were initially drawn to b…

Personally, I'm not "extremely wealthy", but I'm certainly holding a larger percentage of my net worth in bitcoin than is prudent. However, I sold enough to make back my initial investment long ago; if it crashes to zero tomorrow I won't be ruined.

I'm not holding bitcoins as a matter of principle. I have a number in mind, and if I hit it I will have enough money to retire at 35. At that point I plan to sell ~90% of my bitcoins.

I could sell some now, and make a significant amount of money. But I already have plenty of money saved; a little more isn't going to change my life. For my bitcoin investment it's FU money or bust, and any amount I sell now just lowers the chances that I'll ever get to FU money.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#268

Post by kristopolous »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #81
bdonlan wrote: post #42

It's an interesting situation, but assigning liability to coinbase for this seems like it'd be a problem long term. Unlike traditional securities, there's nothing stopping me from going out and making my own fork tomorrow - and then would all exchanges be required to add support for that fork, too? Where do you draw the line?

There was a hint that customers should withdraw their BTC from Coinbase before the split and (if they want to) move it back afterwards; the people that are suing knew this, and knew that Coinbase wasn't going to support it (at first), and yet kept their BTC hosted in Coinbase's wallets.

I had no idea that things worked this way until I read this thread. It was not clear in the slightest from what the exchanges were saying that the fork would entitle me to another currency.

I transferred things from a private wallet INTO coinbase quite literally on 21:00 on 7/31 because there was absolutely zero indication from them that this was a bad idea - just that they didn't support some new alt coin.

You know what would have been responsible would be to own up and explain it:

"After the fork private wallet holders will have both currencies so you should remove your coins from coinbase before the fork, then put them back in"

Is that bad for business? Yep; too fucking bad. Coinbase holds the forked coins right now - all of them - privately. They just aren't giving them to customers. They're just another crooked exchange.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#269

Post by ChuckMcM »

I wonder sometimes if the origin of coinage was similarly fraught with these sorts of challenges. The history of money exhibit at the British Museum is pretty awesome and they go over some of the 'coin scams' of the day like nicking bits off the coins and remelting them into new coins, melting coins and alloying them with other metals so that they 'felt right' but were diluted. People who no longer had to be 'landed' could steal enough coins and be 'rich'. Etc.

So back in that time when a new coin came out, I'm sure the money changers would spend good long time watching it to see how it was abused before they started accepting it as a 'real' coin.

Seems like much the same is true for blockchain currencies, they all need a bit of 'bake time' before you really understand both the demand and the risks associated with them.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#270

Post by random023987 »

SilasX wrote: post #262
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one of the btc nouveaux rich, help me understand something I see reoccurring among my other btc-rich friends. Generally, when you're up big (and in some cases extremely wealthy), you diversify your investments in order to preserver your wealth. However, almost without exception my btc friends are such believers that they are holding on for the ride forever. Is it just that the risk-averse were initially drawn to b…

I've seen the same -- I know someone who got in early to BTC, then moved it all into Ethereum early, such that he has enough to comfortably retire today. But he won't cash any of it in except for a small amount each month to live on, while he lives rent free with others. When I explain the logic of hedging and mitigating risk and locking in gains, he was insistent that the right strategy is to hold because it's going…

> Come to think of it, I should at least consider that he's making it up, but I've met him several time and he's well versed in crypto and way ahead of the curve in learning about this stuff. Who knows?

If you poll people after a presidential election, a higher percentage of people claim to have voted for the winning candidate than voted for the winning candidate.

It's a lot easier to be well-versed in crypto and claim you won some big bets, than it is to be well-versed in crypto and actually have won enough big bets to "comfortably retire". The former requires hindsight, and the latter requires immense luck and timing.

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