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Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

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251–260 of 429 posts

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we expect Coinbase to support them all. Public companies have complicated stock actions like spinoffs (i.e. "Forking" the company), rights offerings, scrip offerings, stock dividends, etc. Do you think ETrade gets to not give their users the results of such actions because it would be complex to implement?

Not just anybody can "fork" a company. Anyone and everyone can fork a blockchain multiple times.

That's immaterial, because a company cannot force customers to forfeit assets by giving them a 10 day ultimatum.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#252
post #204
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I did: if you read my comment you will see I literally wrote that you don't have to store the wallet yourself, just use some online wallet. Another option is a hardware wallet like Trezor. What I don't understand is why would anyone who is so scared of using Bitcoin transfer money to Coinbase to buy Bitcoins. To me this is the same as withdrawing all your money from your bank while being super scared of having yo…

No, that doesn't address the potential fear a customer might have. And I didn't even mention the problems with an online wallet. Yes, you should fear online wallets.

To buying bitcoins on Coinbase (and almost any other exchange) one have to use their online wallet. Fear was not a decisive issue when you (fig.) decided to buy bitcoins, but for whatever reason it is now that you want to move them somewhere else?

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#253
post #229

Coinbase is in a bad situation here. If they set a precedent that all BTC forks will be available to their users, then they open themselves to some pretty obvious DOS attacks. 10 new "bitcoins" could fork every day. Are we really going to expect coinbase to support them all? That's absurd. I think it's pretty obvious that they're going to just issue the BCH to people eventually. Here's another thought experiment: I a…

> 10 new "bitcoins" could fork every day. Are we really going to expect coinbase to support them all? That's absurd.

Of course it's absurd, and nobody expects them to support 10 forks a day. If that was actually happening, Coinbase would be in a much better position to say no.

But this is a single fork, and one where the new currency has a lot of value, enough that customers are threatening to sue.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#254
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really doesn’t make sense, because literally anyone can create an altcoin and declare that the initial holders are as per Bitcoin block 486559, and then fork from there, thus transforming all Bitcoin holders into holders of this altcoin. From the point of view of Bitcoin, Bitcoin didn’t split; someone made a copy, so the initial balances are inherited from the Bitcoin blockchain.

This isn't Timmy from accounting splitting off from Apple. This is the iPad division splitting off from Apple. If I'm holding Apple stock, I sure as hell expect to end up holding iPad stock in the event of a split.

No, this is the iPad division quitting en masse and starting their own company together. You don't get shares in that.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#255
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really doesn’t make sense, because literally anyone can create an altcoin and declare that the initial holders are as per Bitcoin block 486559, and then fork from there, thus transforming all Bitcoin holders into holders of this altcoin. From the point of view of Bitcoin, Bitcoin didn’t split; someone made a copy, so the initial balances are inherited from the Bitcoin blockchain.

This isn't Timmy from accounting splitting off from Apple. This is the iPad division splitting off from Apple. If I'm holding Apple stock, I sure as hell expect to end up holding iPad stock in the event of a split.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the amount of existing BCH is so high, that the moment it starts reaching the exchanges the dump will be earth-shattering. If only there was a way to short BCH... :(

A short is just a loan and a contract. If you can find your own counterparty, you might be able to do it.

I thought about this, but who would make a loan to somebody they don't know without a platform with sufficient guarantees?

And anyway, it would need to be BCH which is already on one of the few exchanges that allow to trade it, as it's impossible for the time being to move it around (which is the very reason why the price is high there right now). Not very likely.

On the other hand, if anybody who is long on BCH wanted to talk about a future or an option, I'm all ears :D

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#257
post #229

Coinbase is in a bad situation here. If they set a precedent that all BTC forks will be available to their users, then they open themselves to some pretty obvious DOS attacks. 10 new "bitcoins" could fork every day. Are we really going to expect coinbase to support them all? That's absurd. I think it's pretty obvious that they're going to just issue the BCH to people eventually. Here's another thought experiment: I a…

As one of the btc nouveaux rich, help me understand something I see reoccurring among my other btc-rich friends. Generally, when you're up big (and in some cases extremely wealthy), you diversify your investments in order to preserver your wealth. However, almost without exception my btc friends are such believers that they are holding on for the ride forever.

Is it just that the risk-averse were initially drawn to btc as a speculative vehicle? Or is it a matter of principle to hold forever?

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't be released from liability for doing something stupid and harmful just by warning people that you're about to do something stupid and harmful.

Except they did not do anything stupid and harmful. They just did not do something clever and beneficial for customers.

> Except they did not do anything stupid and harmful.

Okay, fine. They "gave customers a 10 day ultimatum, at which time they said they would forfeit the Bitcoin Cash because it's unsupported."

You can't do that. It doesn't matter if it's technically complicated to implement a disbursement system, it doesn't matter if anyone can decide to fork a cryptocurrency. A customer's asset cannot be denied to them (potentially, and as originally stated, into perpetuity) with 10 days notice. This is not how any exchange operates, and the fact that Coinbase is attempting to do it is beyond the pale.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#259
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should quit representing themselves as bank holding your coins/private keys, which is not what they are doing. They are issuing IOUs for a certain amount on a particular blockchain. It would be more honest to be explicit about this in their marketing and website copy, and would avoid this problem, but that's not sexy and doesn't get VC funding. I have no sympathy for their plight.

When you put your fiat currency into a traditional bank, the bank doesn't hold it for you either. They also issue IOUs. Coinbase is more similar to a bank than it is to a wallet.

You are latching onto the wrong aspect of my comment. Remove the word "bank" from my comment and it still makes sense.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#260

Big point to remember: the current high price is artificial. There are only a few exchanges selling BCH, and they aren't accepting deposits. The only sellers are those who had BTC there prior to August 1. So it's a sellers market. There's a ton of demand to sell. Once those deposits are enabled, you'll see a flood of dumping, and the price will crash. So let's say Coinbase allows BCH withdrawals. Unless they enabled…

Regardless of the price, an exchange cannot seize customer assets by giving them 10 days notice for withdrawal. It doesn't matter if it's a separate currency - we have things resembling this in public markets, like stock splits. It doesn't matter if everyone can fork the cryptocurrency, that doesn't change the principle of a customer's asset.

What Coinbase should have done is this:

1. Stood their ground on not supporting trading for the cryptocurrency, because they are under no obligation to develop new features.

2. Implemented a system to disburse the forked currency to customers if needed.

3. Implemented an explicit trigger price for acknowledging the new currency, which would function for potential forks of currencies already supported on the platform. If the currency does not pass a specific (very low, far lower than $700) mark, they don't disburse it, but if it does, they immediately support disbursal to anyone who requests it.

The organic state of a cryptocurrency fork is that all extant holders receive a new asset, which may or may not be worth anything. A company cannot seize that asset without consideration. If the price of the currency subsequently crashes, then it crashes; that does not change the rights of a customer to their assets, which cannot be signed away with an email sent out 10 days before the event.

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