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Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records

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Re: Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records

#211

Post by placeybordeaux »

pm90 wrote: post #184
w8rbt wrote: post #143

State and federal governments do not get as much tax revenue either because these people are not earning at their full potential. So basically, it hurts everyone involved as well as society as a whole.

So I have mixed feelings about this situation. On the one hand, if the sentences were for drug possession, yes, I think its really shitty to incarcerate people for that. But if their felony was due to burglary or something more serious/violent, I do think they deserve the punishment. I also agree that once the sentence has been served, people should not be punished any further, except where the occupation requires a…

Whats the point of a judge handing out a sentence if society heaps on a constant amount of extra punishment afterwords?

Re: Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records

#213

Post by jsmthrowaway »

blablabla123 wrote: post #200
pm90 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I have mixed feelings about this situation. On the one hand, if the sentences were for drug possession, yes, I think its really shitty to incarcerate people for that. But if their felony was due to burglary or something more serious/violent, I do think they deserve the punishment. I also agree that once the sentence has been served, people should not be punished any further, except where the occupation requires a…

Yeah same here. On the one hand people deserve a second chance and it just happens that someone can get sucked into a stupid situation. On the other hand when someone boldly ignored certain moral rules, will the person continue to do so? I think it's pretty serious when someone else had to suffer because of that.

> will the person continue to do so?

That is the fundamental question of the sentencing phase of a trial (which is why if you’re unfamiliar with criminal trials, that they’re basically “retrying” a defendant they’ve already found guilty might seem weird), and I agree with the other commenters that it should stop there. Holding people back from regular employment directly causes recidivism. Unemployment and crime are correlated. You can’t just pull people out of society because they erred once, and this is why convictions with priors are worse than without; that question is being answered for you.

You want fewer people in prison and safer communities? Let felons work, fire them when they don’t, or they’ll get the money in other ways. It’s genuinely as simple as that. Beside the DUI crowd, half the minimum security inmates I spent time with were there for check fraud, petty theft, and other crimes to feed themselves or their kids. Many had priors, sometimes several, making one guy I met who had passed a $750 bad check stare down the barrel of a ten stretch.

Think about this: upon my conviction I lost the ability to both vote and leave the country. I have both back now (with effort), but even looking at this situation macroeconomically, what is that saying about even first time offenders?

Re: Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records

#214

Post by Mz »

dragonwriter wrote: post #201
Mz wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/04/... The US has about 4.4 percent of the global population and about 22 percent of the global prison population. So either we are seriously fucking up as a country and incapable of producing decent human beings, or our entire justice system is broken. Something needs to be done differently at the systemic level that doesn't involved holding every individual f…

> The US has about 4.4 percent of the global population and about 22 percent of the global prison population. So either we are seriously fucking up as a country and incapable of producing decent human beings, or our entire justice system is broken. Note that that's not an exclusive or; both can be true, and it's even plausible that there's a positive feedback loop between the two—that is, we have worse people because…

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/03/identity-the...

The tickets had something else in common. Brownsville, the South Bronx, East Harlem, Bed-Stuy (at least eight years ago, when the ticket was issued), all of them are neighborhoods with large black or Hispanic, and very small white, populations. It was then that it became clear to me: the reason for the tickets wasn’t that these Lisa Davises were petty criminals.

If you are the wrong color and live in the wrong part of town, you get criminalized for existing. Then when something does go really wrong, you can be railroaded.

Derreck Hamilton* was a black kid guilty of minor bullshit who spent years and years in prison for a murder he did not commit (because some asshole cop was out to get him and he got railroaded). So, acting like not sending poor, non-whites to prison for basically existing somehow will make life scarier is basically racist bullshit. Or perhaps simply clueless about how things work in this country.

* http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/06/20/derrick-hamilto...

Re: Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records

#215

Post by mytherin »

pm90 wrote: post #184
w8rbt wrote: post #143

State and federal governments do not get as much tax revenue either because these people are not earning at their full potential. So basically, it hurts everyone involved as well as society as a whole.

So I have mixed feelings about this situation. On the one hand, if the sentences were for drug possession, yes, I think its really shitty to incarcerate people for that. But if their felony was due to burglary or something more serious/violent, I do think they deserve the punishment. I also agree that once the sentence has been served, people should not be punished any further, except where the occupation requires a…

Do you really think preventing people from getting jobs makes them less likely to commit crimes in the future? To me it seems the opposite is much more likely. If people are unable to make an honest living they will be forced to commit crimes to make ends meet.

The prison sentence is the punishment for the crime. After people are let out of prison they should be reintegrated into society.

Re: Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records

#216

Post by Co_Reentry »

Richard,

Thanks for your effort in the reentry space! The struggle for returning citizens is real and constant and I love seeing things like this on HN. At one point I worked for a company apploi.com that had a similar business model but targeting a different demographic. I would love to share some things I learned from that experience. I also started a similar venture corestaffing.us that is hyper-focused on the Baltimore/Washington area. Let me know if you are interested in chatting!

Re: Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records

#217

Post by justin66 »

xenadu02 wrote: post #190
justin66 wrote: post #147

This presents an interesting dilemma here for an ex-con. Most people can eventually get their records expunged after they're out for a while, at which point we as a society demand that they start responding "no" to the questions about having a criminal record during the interview process. It's dishonest but it's how the legal system works. If you're an ex-con who will eventually get his record expunged, is there any…

Remember that many states do not allow expunging records no matter how old (eg: Texas). For some people a conviction will follow them literally for the rest of their lives.

If I remember correctly Texas has at least one thing that can be done, an ex-con can petition the court to seal their records, which is similar in effect. (a pre-employment background screening place cannot report expunged or sealed records) I don't really know what the politics are like in Texas but I suspect getting that done isn't easy...

Re: Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records

#218

Post by milesvp »

adnam wrote: post #114
milesvp wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the absolute wrong takeaway here. It's about being overly harshly punished for mistakes in their youths. I've heard very similar stories from public defenders that have nothing to do with drugs, but with common punishment escalations that are hard to avoid when you're poor, and people surely can't avoid being poor. Minor fine goes unpaid because this month the electric bill is more important. Leads to more fi…

"Leads to license suspencion. Leads to driving while license suspended." Or, like, don't drive without a license.

Sure, you can lose your job because you can't get to your job, or you can???

I'm sorry what alternative are you offering? We live in a society where driving is most necessary for those who can least afford it. I think you may grossly misunderstand how difficult life is for people struggling to get by.

You are right, that poor choices can lead someone to a scenario where there are no good choices though. Most of this chain can be broken by just taking some time to take care of their life, but that is not always as simple as it sounds. Right now I personally have societal+familial+work obligations that total 17+hrs daily and I'm lucky to get 6hrs sleep, 3 uninterrupted. I am not poor, and I'm lucky to have a very flexible job, so I could take time to deal a minor fine so it didn't escalate past early court escalations, but I'm not sure I'd be able to trivially take time off to deal with a court appearance if I had a more demanding job, I don't have a lot of flexibility elsewhere to borrow from.

Never forget that it's easy to judge someone's actions from outside, but in their same mental state and reality constraints, you may make the same decisions.

Re: Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records

#220

Post by jmcdiesel »

greenshackle2 wrote: post #177
geff82 wrote: post #127

The good thing about people with a criminal record: you know what they did! You will never know this of the people around you who got away not being caught. Do I know if my neighbour did not rob a bank 10 years ago? No. So working with ex-criminals can be an encounter with honesty.

Uh, you don't know what the ex-con hasn't been caught for either. Maybe they got away with murder 10 years ago, but where only caught for their petty theft 5 years later.

Which also undermines the usefulness of judging based on criminal record...
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