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Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

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Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#141

Post by falcolas »

s73ver wrote: post #87
falcolas wrote: post #17

Yes, this is very consumer friendly on the surface. But remember that Amazon operates is retail arm with little or no profit margin, even with the benefits of scale keeping their costs low. Small businesses don't have the same benefits of scale, and will be forced to close down when their revenue drops below their costs as a result of too many returns. And that is ultimately bad for consumers.

I'd say the wave of scammers operating on Amazon is worse for consumers.

I'm of two minds - if legitimate sellers are pushed out, the signal to noise ratio will probably get worse, but the easier returns policy will help those screwed over by scammers...

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#142

Post by stordoff »

holydude wrote: post #114

I am a big fan of internet platforms and everything but I just do not see a value in online shopping for physical goods. Sure it might be a good thing for shopping "disposable/every day use stuff" but why would I be buying something like a cooking pan (as someone mentioned) online ? If you know the cooking pan you want then yeah i agree amazong might be the most convenient thing but for stuff like that I just want to…

> why would I be buying something like a cooking pan (as someone mentioned) online

I don't know if similar applies to the US, but at least in the UK you get stronger protections when buying online (because you can't inspect the item before hand). If I buy stuff in person, then find it is not suitable for what I need, I might be stuck with it depending on the store (assuming it is as described and not faulty). If I buy it online, I can just send it back (possibly paying postage costs, but most places offer free returns).

For instance I've got a external hard drive on its way back to Amazon because, after testing, found that the performance isn't up to snuff. Had I purchased it in person, I may not have been able to return after use (because the packaging doesn't make any claims regarding performance, it'd be difficult to claim it is faulty/not as described).

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#143

Post by bigtunacan »

My experience on Amazon is that I try not to buy from sellers that aren't shipping directly through Amazon even if it's a lower price due to too many issues.

I broke my rule recently yet again and purchased a "new" book on Amazon from a third seller that was about 1/2 the price of any Amazon shipper for the same item. When it arrived the book was not only not new, but was seriously damaged. Pages were all stuck together where the book must have been wet at some time, a bunch of the pages were torn. This thing was damaged so badly that I about 1/3 of the pages aren't even readable. I contacted the seller and they told me they would send a replacement "right away". That was a month ago and still no replacement, but they have a "no refunds" policy.

=============Edit=========

Here's a picture of this "new" book. The packaging was not damaged at all so this had to be an issue with the reseller rather than USPS.

http://imgur.com/a/UjOSt

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#144

Post by bitJericho »

chaostheory wrote: post #126
msq wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always talk to Amazon customer support if the independent seller is making a fuss about warranty or return.

Did this myself. Didn't help. All it did was add to the frustration and anger. I'm glad Amazon changed their policy.

Amazon policy for defective items is a full refund, and free return postage.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#145

Post by Sleeep »

macintux wrote: post #115
dgfgfdagasdfgfa wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they can go to jet.com instead. It's not like Amazon is without competition.

You say that, yet I'd never heard of jet.com.

Jet.com is owned by Walmart.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#146

Post by chaostheory »

bitJericho wrote: post #144
chaostheory wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did this myself. Didn't help. All it did was add to the frustration and anger. I'm glad Amazon changed their policy.

Amazon policy for defective items is a full refund, and free return postage. https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...

That's not what repeated emails and calls to Amazon customer service said for a defective $350 Exergen thermometer. I kept trying to escalate the issue. Amazon Customer service kept apologizing, telling me that they could do nothing. This happened about a year ago.

Still shop at Amazon, but I definitely think more before buying bigger ticket items and I comparison shop now. Even though this policy change is great, I don't feel that I can revert back to my previous behavior of just mindlessly buying stuff at Amazon because of faith that they'll take care of you.

I am still especially wary of buying from 3rd parties on Amazon unless it's a throwaway item, and we refuse to buy anything that isn't Prime.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#147

Post by stordoff »

javajosh wrote: post #127
xiaoma wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "About 2 years ago I sold an item through the marketplace, shipped through Amazon, and at 30 days the buyer requested to return. I ignored him, and then... (blah blah blah) I haven't used Amazon to buy or sell anything since" So it sounds like buying on Amazon is great way to avoid merchants who ignore support requests. Thanks for the info.

There was nothing illegal or immoral about ignoring a request I wasn't going to accept. It was after 30 days and his window for returning had closed. Certainly I wouldn't do business with someone like you who feels that fraud is justified when some arbitrary condition you place on the other party isn't satisfied to your liking.

Of course fraud isn't justified (which FWIW xiaoma in no way claimed), but if you completely ignore a request, it's not really a surprise if people go over your head and contact Amazon. "I requested a return and seller is ignoring me" may well end up with Amazon issuing a refund regardless of what your return policies say, whereas just responding with your policy details may well end the matter there (assuming the buyer isn't fraudulent).

I had something vaguely similar with Play-Asia about a year ago. Part of an order arrived damaged, and after three weeks of back-and-forth with support was no closer to receiving a replacement item or refund. I ended up filing a PayPal complaint (specifying that only part of the order was in dispute, and that I was only seeking a refund on a single item), but Play-Asia completely ignored this -- PayPal issued a refund on the entire order as a result.

BTW, why did the buyer wish to return the item? If the item had developed a fault, I'm not sure his claim of "Item not received" is _wholly_ unjustified.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#148

Post by Sleeep »

rfdub wrote: post #14

I am perennially amazed at the ire of sellers who build businesses on someone else's platform, and then complain when the purveyor of said platform changes the rules. If you want to get to determine the rules of the game, you have to build your own playing field.

This is unfair, you're always "building businesses on someone else's platform," as you're always dealing with outsiders.

If your supplier raises prices you can become unprofitable, if your distributor changes policies you can become unprofitable, if FedEx raises prices you can become unprofitable, if price of gas goes up you can become unprofitable, if your rent goes up you can become unprofitable, if taxes go up you can become unprofitable, if laws change you can become unprofitable, even if a local employer closes you can become unprofitable, if a competitor comes in and undercuts you you can become unprofitable, etc.

It's not fair to criticize a small business for not building up, from scratch, the infrastructure and customer base that Amazon has. Especially when many of these small businesses wouldn't even be feasible without Amazon's infrastructure.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#149

Post by gozur88 »

stordoff wrote: post #131
fnj wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not do a chargeback Do you really think "I bought something sight unseen and now I don't like it, waah" gets you special snowflake protection? There is no hint that the item is faulty or not as described.

The parent comment states "I bought a pan that arrived with a small defect". Under UK law, that would entitle him to a refund of product cost, delivery costs, and return costs (and Amazon's policies go further - even if not faulty, the seller must provide a UK returns address or pay the costs).

He didn't say anything about a defect. The pan arrived and he didn't like it. I don't think that's the same situation as a defect.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#150

Post by gozur88 »

drstewart wrote: post #104
richthegeek wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I really am amazed how few consumer protections you seem to have! In the UK we're protected on two levels: firstly the "Distance Selling Regulation" means we have the right to cancel many contracts/purchases made not-in-person within 14 days of delivery. And secondly, if a good is faulty, not as described, or unfit for purpose then we have a right to a refund under those terms also. Probably because of these alr…

Wow, only 30 days? That's very very low. REI and other stores here in the US offer up to a year no questions asked return policy. I didn't realize how great that was compared to the UK!

REI is unusual, and famously gets returns on things like clothing and tents that have been used for months.
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