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Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

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Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#131

Post by stordoff »

fnj wrote: post #102
jorvi wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not do a chargeback on your creditcard (or raise a PayPal claim)? The law is very clear, if an item is faulty or not as described the seller is on the hook for all costs. This includes return shipping and/or sending you a replacement. A lot of sellers will try to strong-arm you but if you just do the chargeback/claim they have no option but to eat the loss. Creditcard companies and PayPal thankfully nearly always…

> Why not do a chargeback Do you really think "I bought something sight unseen and now I don't like it, waah" gets you special snowflake protection? There is no hint that the item is faulty or not as described.

The parent comment states "I bought a pan that arrived with a small defect". Under UK law, that would entitle him to a refund of product cost, delivery costs, and return costs (and Amazon's policies go further - even if not faulty, the seller must provide a UK returns address or pay the costs).

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#132

Post by dwyerm »

briholt wrote: post #33
fenwick67 wrote: post #6

> Additionally, Amazon said that it's introducing "returnless refunds," a feature that the company said is "highly requested by sellers." The change enables sellers to offer a refund without taking back an item that may be expensive to ship and hard to resell. Wow, I can literally just say "I don't like it", and there's a chance they'll literally just give me my money back, but let me keep it?

I already had a small business do this for me on Amazon voluntarily. They refunded my small purchase price and asked me to donate the item. I felt so guilty I wouldn't have even asked for a refund if I had known. You bet I did give the item away.

> I felt so guilty...

I've had that same feeling, and I sort of cynically wonder if that's not the point. It is difficult to have ire for a seller when you feel like you've just taken advantage of them.

I ordered a 3-pack of baking mix, one of which was damaged in shipping. They couldn't accept the damaged material and insisted on shipping out a new 3-pack. I got five packs for the price of 3.

That's cool, I guess, but didn't I just get rewarded for the shipper's mistake? That doesn't feel right.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#133

Post by Domenic_S »

jasode wrote: post #39

It's interesting how each market platform is trying to tweak the equilibrium of honest/dishonest buyers vs honest/dishonest sellers. Beyond Amazon specifically, the big picture trend is that any marketplace of 3rd-party sellers which includes eBay, PayPal, Uber, Airbnb, etc will always tilt the advantage towards the buyers. E.g. Buyer scams sellers by claiming he got a bad product and Paypal will instantly issue a ch…

> Beyond Amazon specifically, the big picture trend is that any marketplace of 3rd-party sellers which includes eBay, PayPal, Uber, Airbnb, etc will always tilt the advantage towards the buyers.

eBay found out very early on that having a great marketplace for sellers is worthless without having a compelling buying experience. What good is a flea market if no customers come by, or your reputation is so bad that buyers avoid you?

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#134

Post by thenomad »

fnj wrote: post #125
Sleeep wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the law then yes?

Show me such a law.

Here you go:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/pdfs/ukpga_20150...

"I bought something sight unseen and now I don't like it, waah" will indeed entitle you to a full refund within 14 days under most circumstances.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#135

Post by adventured »

This is very, very good for Walmart and competition between Walmart and Amazon online.

Walmart has been making an aggressive effort to recruit sellers. They'll use this mistake by Amazon to their advantage. It'll also open up opportunities for other platforms such as eBay and perhaps something that doesn't yet exist. This is a mistake of perceived power by Amazon, I imagine they're going to make a lot more of them in the coming years.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#136

Post by komali2 »

settsu wrote: post #100
komali2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect that if Amazon stopped listing third party stuff, other sites would pick up the slack there, perhaps sites like Etsy?

Ebay.

Another good example, but I've definitely heard sellers complaining about ebay as well.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#137

Post by xiaoma »

javajosh wrote: post #127
xiaoma wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "About 2 years ago I sold an item through the marketplace, shipped through Amazon, and at 30 days the buyer requested to return. I ignored him, and then... (blah blah blah) I haven't used Amazon to buy or sell anything since" So it sounds like buying on Amazon is great way to avoid merchants who ignore support requests. Thanks for the info.

There was nothing illegal or immoral about ignoring a request I wasn't going to accept. It was after 30 days and his window for returning had closed. Certainly I wouldn't do business with someone like you who feels that fraud is justified when some arbitrary condition you place on the other party isn't satisfied to your liking.

>"someone like you who feels that fraud is justified"

This is completely unjustified and against site guidelines.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#138

Post by eddigo »

This is what Walmart has been doing for quite a long time. They will essentially take any return and charge the vendor for it.

My mom used to work as a bookkeeper for a garment company and the owners were thrilled when they landed Walmart. She said dealing with Walmart was a full-time job and they were ruthless in their tactics. They started to receive a large number of returns, and Walmart would deduct the cost (item cost, shipping, processing, etc) from their payments owed. I believe she also said they were Net-90. So you basically ship them 3 months worth of goods and you're left holding your dick for a while.

Most of the items they received back weren't in saleable condition, so it was a loss. The company owners decided to let Walmart deal with those items instead of having them shipped back. It turns out Walmart was donating those items and getting a tax write-off. When my mom figured this out, she suggested that her company do this instead of letting Walmart do it. It helped offset some of the costs of doing business with them.

The point is, when you deal with a distributor like Amazon or Walmart, it can bankrupt you if you aren't ready to deal with the volume and draconian policies. So these small businesses are right to be pissed and scared.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#140

Post by detaro »

fnj wrote: post #125
Sleeep wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the law then yes?

Show me such a law.

All EU member states have laws implementing http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:319... (non-conforming products have to be fixed/replaced free of charge) and http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:320... (consumers can withdraw from most distance contracts for 14 days (although here they have to ship back on your their costs))
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