Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#161

Post by gruez » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #87

gruez wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 MB blocks = 1.15GB per day, or 420GB per year. Sure it might be feasible to run a node if you're in a first world country with fast internet and cheap storage (cost of living wise), but even in rural america, 34.5GB is a significant chunk of bandwidth. Not to mention they eventually plan to raise it to 32MB, which works out to 4.6GB a day or 1.63TB/year.

So for those people they can use a light client or run a node online. What is their benefit to running a full node? Not to mention, if Bitcoin becomes a settlement layer then no one can run a full node since most transactions will be off chain. Plus the enjoyment of running a full node is greatly reduced if you're just seeing settlement data between large payment systems.

>So for those people they can use a light client or run a node online. What is their benefit to running a full node?

being able to fully verify the blockchain and the transactions. sure, if all you care about is making a payment you can use a SPV client or even a webwallet, but being able to not r

>if Bitcoin becomes a settlement layer then no one can run a full node since most transactions will be off chain

that's what the lightning network is for. in which case you don't even need the huge blocks.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#162

Post by gruez » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

JustinAiken wrote: post #75

gruez wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 MB blocks = 1.15GB per day, or 420GB per year. Sure it might be feasible to run a node if you're in a first world country with fast internet and cheap storage (cost of living wise), but even in rural america, 34.5GB is a significant chunk of bandwidth. Not to mention they eventually plan to raise it to 32MB, which works out to 4.6GB a day or 1.63TB/year.

You don't need to run a full node to send/receive Bitcoin/BCC though.

see my reply to MichaelGG.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#163

Post by thaumasiotes » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #145

vocatus_gate wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're more or less correct. Coinbase is sitting on the keys to customer wallets/funds. When the fork happened, those keys work both on the original Bitcoin network and the new "Bitcoin Cash" network. Which, apparently turned out to have substantial value (currently trading ~$650). Coinbase made a colossal mistake in outright ignoring BCC and will likely get sued (and lose) because of it. If I had 10 BTC on CB and mi…

>If I had 10 BTC on CB and missed out on the opportunity to trade or sell $6,500 worth of free BCC I just got, I'd be mad too. But is that really what's going on? As I understand it, each BTC also became a BCC at the time of the fork, and owners can now decide on which network they want to use these units (CB users are not technically owners though). No free BCCs were distributed. If I were to decide to move 1 BTC to…

> As I understand it, each BTC also became a BCC at the time of the fork, and owners can now decide on which network they want to use these units (CB users are not technically owners though). No free BCCs were distributed.

No. Each BTC also became a BCC at the time of the fork, and now exists independently on both networks. Owners are free to use them on each network. That is the concept of a fork -- it's an intended double spending attack. There is no such concept as "moving 1 BTC to a BCC wallet". Moving BTC means a transaction on the BTC blockchain. Moving BCC means a transaction on the BCC blockchain.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#164

Post by Taek » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 5:11 PM UTC

Soars to $700 because nobody who owns any is able to sell them. Trading is not open to the public except on one exchange right now, and while that exchange is holding a comfortable $350, it's also an unpopular and low-volume exchange - I'm guessing 90% of their users today made accounts today just to sell their Bitcoin Cash. I know I did.

Once Kraken, Bitfinex, Bittrex, and the other major BCH supporting exchanges are actually accepting deposits, I imagine we'll see the price take a nosedive.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#165

Post by vocatus_gate » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 5:12 PM UTC

undersuit wrote: post #150

vocatus_gate wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Coinbase limits BTC withdrawals based on current USD value. A lot of traders lost money because they couldn't get their funds out in time. Coinbase will likely get sued and it'll cost them.

No not witdrawals. Is there a Coinbase imposed limit to how many Bitcoins I can send to another wallet? And was that recently implemented? Coinbase certainly has conversion limits, but anyone that wanted their Bitcoin into Dollars knew about this limit far before the warning of Coinbase only supporting one side of the split, and converting into Dollars means you don't want to risk the split and you should have been d…

>Is there a Coinbase imposed limit to how many Bitcoins I can send to another wallet?

"Sending to another wallet" IS a withdrawal.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#166

Post by kerkeslager » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #131

kerkeslager wrote: post #121

The problem both sides are trying to solve is that the system as a whole cannot handle the volume of transactions. Before the split, bitcoin handled 7 transactions per second, while Visa handles 50,000 transactions per second (I'm worrying these numbers from memory, so they might be wildly inaccurate). Bitcoin Cash solves this with a larger block size. This is admittedly a short-term solution. Bitcoin main, on the ot…

The important distinction with SegWit is that you can always go "on blockchain" to keep a transaction really private if it needs to be. Liquidity + optional complete anonymity + scalability. Plus I think there will be ways of getting SegWit to be more anon over time. Bitcoin cash's solution will not scale. It's probably going to fail. [90% confidence.]

Sure, if you're willing to pay on-blockchain fees, which are only going up given a constant block size.

Neither option provides anonymity, so that's fairly irrelevant to this conversation. SegWit claims of future anonymity may come true, but given it's antithetical to a centralized business model, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#167

Post by gruez » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

smokeyj wrote: post #71

gruez wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 MB blocks = 1.15GB per day, or 420GB per year. Sure it might be feasible to run a node if you're in a first world country with fast internet and cheap storage (cost of living wise), but even in rural america, 34.5GB is a significant chunk of bandwidth. Not to mention they eventually plan to raise it to 32MB, which works out to 4.6GB a day or 1.63TB/year.

As if people in the third world have money for transaction fees, opening and closing lightning channels, and of course locking up funds to use the channel. The idea that bitcoin can exist only as a settlement layer is a dream. It was pitched as something you can buy a cup of coffee with. Now the core team wants to call that a "spam transaction". Yeah right. Time to fire Core.

>Time to fire Core

it's open source, there's no one to "fire". if you're not happy with it, fork it like bitcoin cash did.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#168

Post by jncraton » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

apk-d wrote: post #99

jncraton wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course if your BTC is not real, but is held by an exchange such as Coinbase, how you get your BCC isn't at all clear. Your BTC should still be "real", but the exchange holds the keys instead of you. Your point stands about it being unclear how you would access your BCC. If you aren't allowed access to your BCC, there's nothing preventing exchanges from dumping the BCC for cash as far as I can tell from a purely…

Exchanges don't keep a real BTC wallet for each user. When one Coinbase user sends funds to another, the transaction is entirely virtual (which lets them avoid paying the network transaction fee).

I'm aware of this, but they should still have enough BTC in storage to cover the BTC in all accounts. This means they should also have BCC for each user.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#169

Post by thaumasiotes » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 5:16 PM UTC

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #128

downandout wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, I believe, is the basis of the unjust enrichment claim. Coinbase technically owns the BTC in its wallets, and you can bet even though they aren't supporting it, they are receiving the associated BCC. They just aren't passing it on to the beneficial owners (their clients).

Would that not only become relevant if BCC were to become more valuable (say in USD) than BTC? As of now, Coinbase is sitting on the fence basically (just like everyone else who holds their own private key and hasn't made a transaction since the fork). They can decide to use their (users') coins on either blockchain but not on both. So what Coinbase has is similar to a call option on BCC.

> They can decide to use their (users') coins on either blockchain but not on both.

Please stop saying this. Read your own grandparent comment:

> There is no "conversion", it is free money for all BTC holders. Everyone who owned BTC, now owns BTC+BCC.

It isn't possible to spend BTC on the BCC blockchain, because coins spent on the BCC blockchain are BCC by definition. Once you've spent your BCC on the BCC blockchain, you still have your BTC on the BTC blockchain; that's what a fork means.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#170

Post by bdamm » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

holtalanm wrote: post #68

alekratz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's how I feel about this. It's not coinbase's responsibility to act as a host to all cryptocurrencies. The article states, > An activist group, which claims Coinbase's decision is akin to a brokerage withholding new shares from its investors, ... which is not at all what it's like. Coinbase isn't the only source to buy/sell BCC. I think it's ridiculous that a company could be sued because they don't offer a…

That is not the issue at all. The issue is that Coinbase is _withholding_ the BCC from its customers. Technically, Coinbase has been awarded the BCC for all of the wallets they are in control of, but are refusing to distribute it. It really is akin to a brokerage refusing to award shares to customers due to a company split/stock split.

It seems clear that Coinbase must have a major fundamental financial problem.