Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#71

Post by xyclos » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:27 PM UTC

sxates wrote: post #60

Anecdotal experience buying on Amazon recently: Bought a new induction cooking pan. A nice one at $90. Didn't really pay much attention to who was selling it, just bought it like I do everything else from Amazon. It took about two weeks to arrive because it was from an independent seller, and was not 'Prime eligible'. When it arrived, I took it out of the box and was immediately disappointed. It was really heavy, and…

I don't know how long ago this was, but if it was within the last 30 days (I think) you can probably file an A-to-Z Guarantee claim and get an immediate Amazon gift card credit added to your account.

I did this recently with an item I ordered. I paid extra for the non-prime eligible 2nd day shipping. It didn't arrive until after 6 days. I filed a claim, and without having to wait for the claim process, Amazon immediately gave me the option to close the claim and receive a gift card for the amount I paid without returning the item.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#72

Post by falcolas » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:28 PM UTC

sharemywin wrote: post #29

falcolas wrote: post #17

Yes, this is very consumer friendly on the surface. But remember that Amazon operates is retail arm with little or no profit margin, even with the benefits of scale keeping their costs low. Small businesses don't have the same benefits of scale, and will be forced to close down when their revenue drops below their costs as a result of too many returns. And that is ultimately bad for consumers.

Amazon doesn't need independent sellers anymore.

I'd say that most of their listings are dominated by independent sellers; you can't even tell if Amazon is offering an object without digging into the "see more sellers".

For example, find a coffee grinder sold by Amazon (note, not Amazon Warehouse Deals)

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_hi_eb?rh=n%3A1055398%2Cn%3A2...

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#73

Post by cfn » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:28 PM UTC

richthegeek wrote: post #67

sxates wrote: post #60

Anecdotal experience buying on Amazon recently: Bought a new induction cooking pan. A nice one at $90. Didn't really pay much attention to who was selling it, just bought it like I do everything else from Amazon. It took about two weeks to arrive because it was from an independent seller, and was not 'Prime eligible'. When it arrived, I took it out of the box and was immediately disappointed. It was really heavy, and…

Wow, I really am amazed how few consumer protections you seem to have! In the UK we're protected on two levels: firstly the "Distance Selling Regulation" means we have the right to cancel many contracts/purchases made not-in-person within 14 days of delivery. And secondly, if a good is faulty, not as described, or unfit for purpose then we have a right to a refund under those terms also. Probably because of these alr…

Be that as it may, I had a similar experience with an independent seller at Amazon UK. I bought a pan that arrived with a small defect and they told me I would have to pay the postage back (25 Euros on a £30 or £40 pan - I was buying from abroad). I also ended up keeping the pan and now avoid independent sellers as much as possible.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#74

Post by kbutler » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:30 PM UTC

fenwick67 wrote: post #6

> Additionally, Amazon said that it's introducing "returnless refunds," a feature that the company said is "highly requested by sellers." The change enables sellers to offer a refund without taking back an item that may be expensive to ship and hard to resell. Wow, I can literally just say "I don't like it", and there's a chance they'll literally just give me my money back, but let me keep it?

More often, if a product is obviously defective, or the wrong item was shipped, they may say just keep it (or throw it away) and send a replacement or refund.

I've had this happen with multiple companies. (Wrong t-shirt, warranty replacements on some items, credit card extended warranties, a couple of ebay sellers where the item was defective, etc.)

Definitely something I wouldn't abuse, and I hope others don't abuse, because it increases the efficiency of the system - both by reducing impediments to buying things and by reducing overall cost when things go wrong.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#75

Post by Maarius » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:30 PM UTC

gryzzly wrote: post #30

In Germany, there is a law that anything (I’m sure there are exceptions) sold online can be returned in the 30 days after delivery. So Amazon or not, companies must allow this anyway. Also some non-Amazon online stores offer "returnless refunds" for some items or just ship a new one to you in case of damaged item. Apart from forcing the vendors to pay for retouring the new policy is similar to German regulations and…

Are you sure it is not 14 days? https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/So-funktioniert-der-Inter...

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#76

Post by kbutler » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:31 PM UTC

will_brown wrote: post #57

Shank wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon customer support has told me to discard items that've been defective, rather than ship them back, on multiple occasions. There's probably an internal policy about how many of these can be performed by a customer, but it's extremely convenient when they let you.

Can you give examples of what you mean by a defective product? Do you mean the legal definition[1], more or less as in "unsafe"? Because if so, the reason they are likely telling you to discard defective product is so it can't be used as evidence in a liability case in the instance an unsafe product has caused any harm. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_defect

"A product defect is any characteristic of a product which hinders its usability for the purpose for which it was designed and manufactured."

This does not imply "unsafe".

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#77

Post by ReverseCold » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:31 PM UTC

sxates wrote: post #60

Anecdotal experience buying on Amazon recently: Bought a new induction cooking pan. A nice one at $90. Didn't really pay much attention to who was selling it, just bought it like I do everything else from Amazon. It took about two weeks to arrive because it was from an independent seller, and was not 'Prime eligible'. When it arrived, I took it out of the box and was immediately disappointed. It was really heavy, and…

I had a similar experience, contacted Amazon support and they just refunded me.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#78

Post by detaro » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:31 PM UTC

will_brown wrote: post #57

Shank wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon customer support has told me to discard items that've been defective, rather than ship them back, on multiple occasions. There's probably an internal policy about how many of these can be performed by a customer, but it's extremely convenient when they let you.

Can you give examples of what you mean by a defective product? Do you mean the legal definition[1], more or less as in "unsafe"? Because if so, the reason they are likely telling you to discard defective product is so it can't be used as evidence in a liability case in the instance an unsafe product has caused any harm. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_defect

Wouldn't having the customer ship it back before you give them a refund decrease the chance that they'll keep it and use it against you?

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#79

Post by kbutler » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:36 PM UTC

jermaustin1 wrote: post #38

cableshaft wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that's how digital refunds work, for the stores that support them. It's not like they need you to reupload the game code you downloaded from their server.

But you can turn that game license off. You can't turn off a couch.

For a warranty return, once I had to send a picture of the cut power cable.

Basically, evidence it was destroyed was sufficient.

Re: Amazon's new refunds policy will 'crush' small businesses, outraged sellers say

#80

Post by xchefhatx » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:37 PM UTC

Last year I made a little over $500k GROSS selling games on Amazon. This policy change is going to be a nightmare because fraud and bootlegging are rampant on their platform.

Small businesses and large ones too are being forced to become sharecroppers for Amazon if they want to stay in business.