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Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

nytimes.com

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Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#141

Post by matthewmacleod »

dis-sys wrote: post #135
matthewmacleod wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reasons that it's so hard to have constructive conversations about this sort of issue – the gross hyperbole. The US judicial system, prisons and government obviously have many flaws, arguably getting worse, and has a difficult relationship with human rights. However, the US government does not do things like nationally censor particular children's cartoons because they might insult the president (…

Fixed for you - The Chinese judicial system, prisons and government obviously have many flaws, arguably getting worse, and has a difficult relationship with human rights. However, the Chinese government does not do things like operating Guantanamo Bay or cause civilian deaths using WMD as excuses. How many civilians got killed in Iraq as a direct consequence of US invasion? Their lives worth less than those human rig…

I find it baffling that there is an idea that China's records on human rights is comparable to that of the US. The US has human rights problems, and China's are objectively much worse.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#144

Post by zitterbewegung »

teknologist wrote: post #139
mstaoru wrote: post #28

When you apply for ICP beian license at Aliyun (Alibaba's cloud), you either choose "I use Aliyun" and give them the server ID, or you choose "I use another server" and two additional fields appear: your server log in, your server password. You need ICP license if you want to integrate any kind of service. Wechat, Alipay, other payment systems, SMS notifications etc, everything needs the ICP. I guess AWS China also h…

Usually not having the ICP also means your site is dog slow and prone to being blocked at any moment. Of course if your site is actually needed enough this rule kind of gets ignored. See: GitHub. They probably don't have an ICP license or plans to get one and yet it works really well in China (not even joking)

I remember Github has been blocked in the past . See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_GitHub#China

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#145

Post by WithHighProb »

am1988 wrote: post #128
ttflee wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a shrinking demography, one problem is that the size of pool of elite is also shrinking. Physics professors in top universities of China has complained on social media that the younger generation lacked both dedication and intuition, that he had to lower the bar for his final exam to extremely easy.

An older guy complaining young people are lazy? I am shocked. Absolutely shocked.

You really can't imagine how hard working were the older generation of China. It was even kinda brutal from young people's points now. Srsly, an Asian's "lazy" (remember an A- is a F there)?

Pretty sure the "extremely easy" exam will fail 90% of the class if moved to US

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#146

Post by WithHighProb »

ariwilson wrote: post #116
illuminati1911 wrote: post #113

To all these "you either support freedom of information or you dont" commenters: If life was only so simple. No sane CEO would try to fight against Chinese government risking their access to the market. Even if the goal for the company is freedom of information, pissing of Chinese government, risking the safety of the company employees in China and getting smoked out by the shareholders is not gonna help anyone. It's…

Disagree. In my opinion, American/other foreign tech companies have gotten a raw deal in China, with constant technology theft and hindered access to the domestic market, in addition to the usual suppression of dissent/free speech. I haven't seen any signs that this has been changing for the better, so why should American tech companies engage in China?

One possible reason is they want to keep earning report looking good (or maintain a so-called "fast growth" because the bubble is too big. Believe it or not, China has everything to fill your tech bubble despite some restrictions.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#147

Post by sremani »

adventured wrote: post #36
ttflee wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a giant corporation-like kleptocracy, the product of which is the labour of Chinese people. Now that the population that output cheap labour wanes as the demographic data deteriorates. Situations will change.

Unlikely. Even now China has a surplus of 300 to 400 million people that work as subsistence farmers. There's nothing else for them to do. China's manufacturing is no longer expanding meaningfully. They have a truly massive supply of inexpensive labor still accordingly; however those people working as impoverished farmers have nowhere to go, and are held in place by the government, with no rights to property ownershi…

Perhaps one of the more accurate analysis of China, but I disagree with Communist party's position is cemented. Just like the US is having a Coasts vs Hinterland clash, China is having that clash on steroids. The whole silk road program is basically trying to move some of the coastal wealth to interior to placate the populations etc. Their wealth is certainly not going away, but it will contained in Coastal, added to that a trade war with USA is brewing and a real war in Korean peninsula, will certainly shock their system.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#148

Post by mooreds »

mc32 wrote: post #7
micaksica wrote: post #2

In case you assumed that corporate responsibility is actually taken to heart by those making corporate strategic decisions, let this show you that it is not. Corporate responsibility moves are little more than good PR, a product selling point, and a way to avoid fines in some jurisdictions. Money matters more than morals. These corporations want access to the Chinese market. To gain access (and profit from) to the Ch…

When has that ever been in doubt with regard to China? To do any major business in China you have to partner with a local company --which typically have ties to the CCP. This is nothing new. Is there a difference btwn opening factories in China and legally outsourcing work to local cos which may or may not comply with even local labor and environmental laws and bowing to their local mores when it comes to softer area…

I remember reading about this decades ago in "One World, Ready or Not" by Greider: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/285435.One_World_Ready_o...

Well worth the read to understand the different forces tugging on global corporations.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#149

Post by abiox »

Buge wrote: post #99
Steko wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not disputing the idea that Tim Cook has taken stances on certain issues including human rights. I'm disputing the idea that by complying with a Chinese law means he's "doing almost the same thing as what he's fighting against". That's rubbish.

All gay internet content is illegal in China[1]. By blocking VPNs, Tim Cook is helping to ban all gay content. [1] http://fortune.com/2017/06/30/china-homosexuality-internet-w...

are you suggesting that apple engage in illegal activities?

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#150

Post by abiox »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #97
Steko wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not disputing the idea that Tim Cook has taken stances on certain issues including human rights. I'm disputing the idea that by complying with a Chinese law means he's "doing almost the same thing as what he's fighting against". That's rubbish.

Many of these specific laws are very directly anti-free-expression. Complying there while accepting a free expression award is about as clear as possible an example of "doing almost the same thing as what he's fighting against".

"complying"... the law is the law. behaving in an illegal manner which will only get you shutdown doesn't seem like a great strategy.
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