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Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

nytimes.com

101–110 of 175 posts

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#101
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aiding Chinese censorship for a quick buck is your idea of a "reasonable middleground"?

Apple's been 'aiding Chinese censorship' in hundreds of ways to the tune of billions of dollars for well over a decade and you were ok with it all until they took VPN's off the app store? Lol.

If increased awareness isn't a reason to change our minds and we stubbornly stick to ideas we had a decade ago we're in trouble.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#102
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a giant corporation-like kleptocracy, the product of which is the labour of Chinese people. Now that the population that output cheap labour wanes as the demographic data deteriorates. Situations will change.

Unlikely. Even now China has a surplus of 300 to 400 million people that work as subsistence farmers. There's nothing else for them to do. China's manufacturing is no longer expanding meaningfully. They have a truly massive supply of inexpensive labor still accordingly; however those people working as impoverished farmers have nowhere to go, and are held in place by the government, with no rights to property ownershi…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#104
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's been 'aiding Chinese censorship' in hundreds of ways to the tune of billions of dollars for well over a decade and you were ok with it all until they took VPN's off the app store? Lol.

If increased awareness isn't a reason to change our minds and we stubbornly stick to ideas we had a decade ago we're in trouble.

"We're" already in trouble. Just like HN commenters wisely advise not to build your company on top of someone else's service, the entire planet has built their service on China's manufacturing. The thinking (if there even was any, I personally doubt it) was that we'd just use them for labor intensive but low intellectual assembly work, but it seems no one considered if China was happy to continue being the servant of the West indefinitely.

China seems like a country happy to play the long game, but I don't think they're even going to have to.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#105
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a giant corporation-like kleptocracy, the product of which is the labour of Chinese people. Now that the population that output cheap labour wanes as the demographic data deteriorates. Situations will change.

Unlikely. Even now China has a surplus of 300 to 400 million people that work as subsistence farmers. There's nothing else for them to do. China's manufacturing is no longer expanding meaningfully. They have a truly massive supply of inexpensive labor still accordingly; however those people working as impoverished farmers have nowhere to go, and are held in place by the government, with no rights to property ownershi…

Exactly, everyone who says China is doomed due to demographics overlooks the huge pool of under-utilized labor. People are looking at percentages when they should be looking at raw numbers.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#106
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google wasn't giving up too much in China. The search engine wasn't getting much tractions, based on differing asthetics. Chinese websites are far more clustered and busy - take a look at https://world.taobao.com/ . I guess that it's being shifted - baidu seems relatively uncluttered, but the Chinese aesthetic is cramming as much information as possible on the same web page.

Baidu has long had an uncluttered, Google-like homepage, e.g. in Jan 2010: https://web.archive.org/web/20100101155014/http://www.baidu.... It's true that before its departure Google China was losing market share to Baidu, reportedly at least in part due to government throttling which slowed Google's service to a crawl: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/6143553... Still, Google China's share of the…

for that 30% claimed market share, a large % of them had to search "google" in Baidu to get to google.com because they didn't know how to spell the word google.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#107
post #47

What are they supposed to do? Either they comply or they leave the Chinese market. It's that simple. I hope people don't fault these companies for playing ball with a communist government.

Yes, playing ball with a despotic authoritarian regime is precisely what people are faulting these companies for. A lot of companies left the market in South Africa market in the 1980s, to which the parallels are obvious. But they didn't do it because they suddenly woke up and felt like doing the right thing; they did it because people's outrage over human rights in South Africa began to threaten the profits gained f…

South Africa is tiny, China is an 800 pound gorilla upon which the majority of the world's manufacturing depends. The decision of whether to "play ball" with China needs to be made at the government level, and 10+ years ago. It's too late now, the horse is out of the barn. China, and only China, will decide how they act on the world stage.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So fits well with companies from the US, which also specifically has an appalling human rights record.

Interesting ... how many dissidents are currently rotting in Google's prisons?

In all cooperate colonies? Do outsourced prisons count?

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#109
post #85
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Unrelated: is this a reference that I don't get? 4 people have responded with exactly this!)

Yeah, I am also puzzled. Even checked comments to ensure these are not bots.

They sync even in dissent. Bezos has them well trained.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#110
post #29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's going to be up to you, the Amazon employee. Personally, I'm unwilling to work for a company who's values are in severe opposition to my own, so I would probably quit my job over something like this (if I felt strongly enough about it).

Have to admit, perhaps that thought only came so strong because of me literally yesterday reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1... , knowing about this information being censored in China, and, suddenly, Amazon submissing to government to prevent people from accessing it. Right now feels too dramatic.

Living by strong personal principles in a world that no longer has any is a recipe for a very unhappy life.

The business and government leaders of the world have, over more than a decade of decisions, put us on this path, what's going to happen will happen. Don't sacrifice your life in some futile attempt to "do the right thing", it won't change anything other than harm you.

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